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Why isn't romance games really a thing?
| You know how there are one bajillion romance novels but they tend to be tucked into their own corner and have their own specific audience?
There are one bajillion romance games but they tend to be tucked into their own corner too. Dating sim is a large market. Not AAA huge, and seems to be mostly concentrated in asia, but it has its own audience.
| As for why it's not more mainstream, *shrug*, popular games only recently stop being mostly shooty-shooty explodey FPSes. Romance don't really fit that image.
| >>629058
I guess it's a pretty intimate, non-interactive matter that goes better into the book format, and there's a stigma about pixel romance among normies due to obnoxious waifufags.
Maybe I would enjoy some West-made dating sim visual novel with in-depth characterization and advanced choices. But nobody would do it, so we end up with Super Seducer and Hunie Pop.
Anw people are too stupid to realize if their choices matter or not, see the absurd praise towards Telltale "games".
| >>629089
This is kind of my problem with it though. Why is it only visual novel and dating sims. Why aren't there actual, proper games that are romance focused? Also, I disagree. Games are perfect for romance! Like, how is the most interactive entertainment medium not perfect for romance?
>>629083
"Dating sims" are barely even games though, just candy crush with lewd filter.
Also, why isn't it AAA? Like, if Nintendo released a romance game, people would be all over that, no?
| >>629094
>"Dating sims" are barely even games though, just candy crush with lewd filter.
Ok, I have to let you know that this is extremely fucking rude. Just because you've never heard of good dating sims don't mean they don't exist.
>if Nintendo released a romance game, people would be all over that, no?
They already did and it's called Fire Emblem. NO WAIT HEAR ME OUT. Aside from being brilliant strategy RPG, Fire Emblem has always been about interpersonal relationship.
| I hit text limit so I'm just gonna leave it at that, ha.
FE aside, romance exists plenty in AAA games too! Zelda and Link. Geralt of Rivia and Yennefer. Mass Effect and Dragon Age let you date the characters. Some Final Fantasy have heavy romance in them.
What is it that you expect from a "romance genre", op?
| >>629107
What I expected is entire games purely about building a strong romantic relationship between characters that isn't a visual novel or the same level of (non)interaction as a visual novel.
You mention all those games, but having a little romance mixed in does not make it romance. That's like saying literally every movie, show, book and game with a story is in the romance genre. Like, you wouldn't call Naruto a romance anime, would you?
| Like, ok. Imagine a high-quality, full price game released by a big studio that's specifically a romance game. You can of course have other elements in the game. Exploration, puzzle solving, combat, idk. But the main focus of the game is the romantic relationship between two characters. A relationship that you as the player create, you know? Getting to know the characters, directly influencing the personality and character development, spending a lot of time with them. You know?
| >>629110
The thing with high-quality full-price game is that it's a risky endeavor, so they usually can't afford to experiment with the gameplay too much.
Having a gameplay that supports a 100% romance game will require a lot of experimentation. Not to mention there's no market demand for it. That's why romance games are smaller indie titles.
There might be a time when a mainstream AAA game exist that is 100% romantic? But we're not there yet.
| Mainly because video games (for the most part) have the stipulation to provide player input. So, how would you add player input to a romance story? you have visual novel with choices.
As other gurls have said, AAA games requires a massive budget. Without a guarantre of a large target audience, an idea will not he greenlit by AAA publishers. That's why you get the indies and niche japanese developer making low bidget visual novels.
| Who votes that OP writes a test script of a few number of chapters, then adapt it into a game with all the design constraints they said ?
o/
I don't wanna be a douche, but I think 100% romance doesn't exist...
Maybe like 90% at best...
Dating sim is not romance to me, sry...
Multiple storylines with a huge amount of choice ? You're trying to recreate something that has its own entropy yknow... Every subtile change means >>>everything is different.
| Romance should be a part of a whole, like in real life, yknow ?
is all I wanna say
| Also, dating sims doesn't stop at hunniepop. Maybe, just maybe, you haven't tried enough games.
Try playing LovePlus on NDS, you have stats that affects wether you can approach certain characters. And once you are in a relationship, you can spend a shit ton of time with her doing dates and stuff.
Persona 3-5 is also not a bad game if you want to "get to know people". It is mainly JRPG, but it has dating soms mechanics.
| Oh yeah... also Cathrine only has 2-3 girls, but the puzzle mechanics is deeper than hunniepop, also the story has more stakes than hunniepop. So, maybe try that.
Iirc toki meki memerial also has stats in addition to the usual visual novel.
| *toki meki memorial
| >>629110 "Getting to know the characters, directly influencing the personality and character development, spending a lot of time with them" Nigga, the term you're looking for is "RPG", they're literally based off all the shit you listed.
| Because romance isn't really a good gameplay mechanic? It's all about communication, and you can do only so much with that... Yet. VNs are convenient for a more story-driven experience, you can just focus on interaction between characters, or, if need be, add some management/puzzle elements. Dandelion is a good example.
| And if we are trying to create a huge world with things to interact with - well, romance isn't really the most interesting and engaging thing to create. You can create 1,5-2 hour film about some couple, but 10-50+ hour game cant really survive on that. And everything shorter? You got that covered by VNs and short and sweet indie titles. The real question is - why accomplished authors
| ...won't write VNs. Sorry, missclicked.
| >>629545
this I think. romance is a story genre. just because it exist doesn't mean everything could fit into this "genre". you don't call pop music "romance" music, do you? likewise, video games can have romantic storyline, LOTS of them have, but "romance" gameplay doesn't make much sense. dating sim is the closest to what OP is looking for but they don't like them so ???
| >>629109
> What I expected is entire games purely about building a strong romantic relationship
The Sims kinda did it though? You can date your neighbor, marry them, have children, spend old days together, and die. What could be more romantic than that? I'm pretty sure if you give EA enough money you can take your spouse to a date in the city. And it's AAA to boot.
| >>629555
From romance I'd like to feel something though. Clicking "give flowers to neighbour" and then "fuck neighbour" in Sims doesn't really get you emotionally invested.
>>629546
You say that, but Clannad is a very popular romance visual novel, and that game is 60-70 hours long. So when a romance visual novel that is so long works so well, why shouldn't a long, proper romance game work?
| >>629313
Of course it has to have more than just purely romance in it, or it wouldn't have, you know, story, plot, setting, or really anything to make it interesting.
| >>629312
Ah, yes. Because every time you've had an idea for something you've made it. That's the kind of argument you use against the cunts who say making something like this would be easy, but I'm fully aware it would be extremely difficult, so fuck off.
Well, as I said, it of course won't be purely 100% romance because you always need things to drive the story and keep things interesting. Obstacles and such.
That's not what I said though...
| >>629559
Q1: Are you okay with a game without an ending?
Q2: Are you okay with developping relationship with a girl that might be underaged?
Q3: Do you like headpat?
If the answer to all those 3 questions are "Yes", then go play Teaching Feelings.
| >>629563
You very much have my interest, but also, it looks very visual novel, so the question still stands. I very much would like to check it out though.
| >>629561
Yea I know xD
But just in case, maybe you could have been the one that unlocks my mind about what a "romance genre" videogame is like...
I really have a hard time grasping the thing, yknow...
Start simple, what kind of stereotypical gameplay would it play like ? Is there even a main protag ? Would it be a game where you have things to achieve, or an experience beyond the rules of the game, like a journey or something ?
| >>f2795e Books offer a lot of creative freedom but at a price of user interaction. VNs are a bit better at it, but just adding a /couple/ more roots can drastically increase development times and hurt consistency. More freedom - more complexity. Look at most of really lengthy games.
| You either have something purely gameplay-based, like Factorio, where you can sink in months of your lifetime just creating and then solving an immensely complex puzzle, or story-driven experiences. RP or FPS games.
| Look at the Witcher. There is a lot to DO, but story-wise - there isn't really that much in comparison. About 13 hours of cutscenes, some of which you won't even see, and then a lot of scripted dialog between characters. Admittedly, it is quite a lot, but all of this is supported by a giant world with tons of baddies to kill, sights to see and relics to find.
| It offers an interesting narrative and a lot of freedom, but you need to have something to do with said freedom. Interesting story in games serves as a reason to do interesting shit, and, well, while love can be a goal - it isn't that much of an interesting activity by itself for most people.
| All the good bits - drama, complex relationships, ups and downs, idk - are created mostly by some kind of an outside influence. Love cant exist in a vacuum. And you can either simulate those things or describe them. Former is very pricey and hard, and the latter is just writing. I am shure that it is possible to find some kind of middleground, but I recon that if that was financially viable at this point - companies would milk the shit out of it. \\ Sorry for the lengh.
| And my English. Idk if that was painful to read, but if it was - my apologies.
| I think it mostly comes down to one question. What would be the primary gameplay loop? You can add romance to other things, but how on earth do you make romance a primary gameplay loop worthy of full AAA release, rather than just visual novel choices?
| It depends on what you mean by 'romance'. There are ofc the visual novels which focus heavily on romance yes. But there are many games where a romantic connection is vital to the plot. Legend of Zelda for example, as the romance connection between the different incarnations of Link and Zelda is important.
But the problem is that games need to be playable. Romance along doesn't cut it. Which is why visual novels are most known for their romance routes, not much gameplay.
| >>629581
I don't think you read what I said earlier.
>>629622
But, why can't someone make playable romance? Like, going on a date doesn't have to be click a button and stats go up or overly dramatic scene, right? It could be lots of different, interesting, fun stuff, with actual gameplay.
>>629576
I'm not trying to order one specific game. I imagine all of those things would be different depending on who made it.
| So tl;dr romance genre exists, it's called dating sim. OP just doesn't want to acknowledge them because they don't have enough gameplay.
>>629563
Teaching feeling had button clicking though. OP doesn't like clicking buttons! She wants actual gameplay duh have you been paying attention??
| >>629661
It is not that I dislike that kind of stuff, I just wish there was other, better options, and I'm also very curious as to why that hasn't really been invented yet.
| >>f2795e Oh yeah, I've missed quite a bit, sorry. Well, technicalities aside, even if a compelling game could be created - it is possible that no one was actually interested enough in the subject. You need to remember that people creating games are of a certain type. Plus gamedev is fairly young if you think about it, and it's not like any random shmuck can create a game that'll reach it's audience. And big publishers are more interested in fairly safe and explored approaches.
| It is a developing medium. They were not venturing outside religious text for a while ether. Mainly because of associated costs and work. Give it some time.
| >>629558
>>in romance I want to feel something though. Clicking doesn't really get you emotionally invested
I don't know about you op, but even in something like The Sims I feel an immense emotional satisfaction in seeing my characters finally kiss and then get married and have children and all.
The game gives us space to develop emotional connection, but it's up to us if we really want to develop it. I think you're thinking too narrow if you can't find this romantic
| >>f2795e Definitely not that people interested in romance can't get into gamedev or something of the sort, relax. Picture of a sweaty goblin with red eyes certainly amuses me in a way, but I'll gladly leave that stereotype for yandere-boy to maintain. I hope he fails.
| Nevertheless, you also can't deny that there is a reason that for a long while FPS and action-adventure games were predominant. Lots of reasons, actually. And people that create games now - they've grown on the stuff. Despite that they've been expanding the medium for a while but again - it takes some time.
| >>629662 it has been "invented" and was not sucessfull, that is why no one is willing to take the risk again.
I mean, is leisure suit larry not a romance game? Your goal is to get laid with girls, the one ps2 (magna cum laude) it has world that you can explore, not just clicking on dialogs. And then you have 7 sins (I have not played it, but I am guessing it is not a visual novel from the screenshots)
| >>629732
There's no ways those games are meant as anything but a joke though, and, well, I wouldn't call them very romantic either.
7 Sins looks like yet another half-assed porn games. Is it really that hard to understand what romance means?
>>629730
Yeah, I guess I'll just have to wait and see unless I try to make it myself, and that sounds hard as fuck, so, yeah. I'll just wait and hope.
| i don't think romance really meshes well with video games unless you make a mini-life sim.
That being said I could totally see some Shenmue-esque game where the major focus is finding and courting someone.
| >>629862 if you are going to call a fidget spinner simulator or asset flipped space invader clone a joke game, then I understand. The leisure suit larry game has an actual company as the developer. It is not an indie game made by one guy, it has story, it has an original game assets. Just because it is a porn game doesn't mean it is a joke game.
It's not hard to understand the definition of romance, you are just the one being too damn picky about your romance game.
| What's wrong with visual novels? Plenty of romance there alright.
| >>630839
There's nothing wrong with visual novels. I personally enjoy them. Just read what I said, yeah?
| >>630841　Just read how you call them trashy in your original post. This thread is too long, I don't wanna read through it all. Didn't mean to offend.
| >>630855
Most of them are though, no? At least the ones I'm interested in. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I just think it would be nice if romance became a proper genre, spanning all types of games, and not just visual novels and low quality sims.
| >>630864
> spanning all types of games
How's that gonna work though? Do you want a romance racing game? Romance restaurant management? Unless you mean "several" types of games instead, we already have romance in farming simulation, life simulation, RPG, strategy games, boyfriend phone call simulation and my favorite genre of all: memory reconstruction simulation.
| Also play's lilith's throne. It's a sexual compatibility simulator, which is basically the same thing as romance.
| >>630912
Idk. I'm not gonna make it. I just think it could be interesting.
>>630923
Eh. I know of it. Doesn't seem too interesting.
| It depends on what you mean by romance visual novels, but Clannad and Flowers, for example, are some of my favorite games and are not trash by far.
| >>631189
Fair enough. Clannad does seem pretty damn solid, but it's still just a visual novel. I do like visual novels, I just want something else. That should be pretty fucking clear by now.
| Gay
| It probably should be, but TLDR.
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| In every other entertainment medium romance is such a big thing. Movies, books, shows, music. Romance is extremely popular in all those formats, but the only romance games we have are trashy romance visual novels and "candy crush with boobs".
I find it surprising that video games don't really have a romance genre. I feel like the audience that consumes a lot of video games would love it if game companies started actually making romance games.