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Objectivity and positivity
| Yes, but it shouldn't stop you from also considering feelings !
Instead of cold I'd say composed, and instead of mean I'd say honest ? Is that ok ?
| >>667431
I sometimes ask if they really want to hear my honest opinion if it's, like, kinda brutal. I don't want to hurt anyone, but at the same time, I can't be too considerate. Fluff can be nice, but is doesn't solve anything. If they fuck up I'm gonna be very honest and tell them they fucked up, but I'll also tell them it's understandable why they did and how to deal with the consequences. So maybe you're right? Composed and honest is probably a good way of looking at it.
| I'm not always super composed though. If I feel very strongly about something I'll let my feelings be known, but I won't let it cloud how I view it, if that makes sense? I've talked a fair bit with victims of abuse, who often feel like they're to blame for having been abused, and, well, I don't even entertain that idea in the slightest. I just tell them straight up how fucked up that sort of stuff is and what it does to them. That's why I say "cold", and might be perceived as mean.
| A lot of times people are overtaken by emotions and try defend what they belive with every fiber of their being and they want everyone to agree with them, to the point that they will look formentally weak people or crowd pleasers to diagree and create circles where everyone agrees with everyone, making a doctrination, puting emotions aside can be a good way to avoid dumb decisions
| >>667973
Very true.
I'm guilty of letting my emotions get the best of me at times. If people are too whiny/toxic I will generally respond with the same energy.
I wish more people would adopt OPs mindset of trying to become more objective in their reasoning.
But being purely objective is a myth. We will always look at the world and ourselves trough a subjective lens. However this doesn't mean that we can't adopt a more objective mindset than we already do.
| True, we cant always be 100% rational, its a part of being an animal, but people should think more before doing stuff
| >>667973
In some cases, yeah, but they're usually a lost cause.
>>667987
Oh, well, yeah. I'm not purely objective. That would be impossible. It's not like I don't have emotions either. I have a lot of emotions. I'm just human, but as you say, I do my best to think about things objectively and logically, instead of letting my emotions do everything and instead seeing things for what they are (to the best of my abilities of course, I'm not gonna pretend I'm perfect in any way).
| >>667973 >>667987
damn there's some truth in this thread. i'm the ethnostate cringeboi and i get my panties in a twist every time because i want people to agree with me.
politics are so fucking exhausting, i hate it...
btw i do believe that alienation can severely radicalize.
| >>668064
>i want people to agree with me
>also has one of the worst possible positions
you may need to find a new hill to die on
I don't really believe in objectivity. Objects, even, are a human construct, so is being 'object'ive really interpreting the world without bias? Certainly it is possible to try to see things as they are, but there will always be misinterpretations and such. Maybe, the act of striving towards objectivity is itself emotionally motivated.
| >>668212
Homie, I'm sorry to hear this is the first time you've thought about this concept. Of course it's emotionally motivated. It's a lot easier to be stable, happier and get through struggles when you think like that. That's the whole point of it.
| >>668241 Alright, since I am also arguing there is no objectivity, I will concede your opinion is not bad. Allow me to modify my statement to>also has a world ideal that's unrealistic, idealistic, and probably not actually aligned with her own values
| >>668231 It's not the first time. Sure, trying to be more objective or logical might be better for some situations, so by all means use it then. In the end though no assessment can be truly objective because it will always have the chance of misperception.
I also think striving to be objective can often lead to becoming condescending and unempathetic. There are times when it is useful but it doesn't need to be one's sole mindset, nor should any way of making decisions.
| >>668263
meh
unrealistic based on what?
idealistic yes yes.
3rd one maybe, but i've given it lots of thought
| example : emphasising that something is "objectively bad" is an easy way of pissing people off.
objectivity and subjectivity don't have anything to do with the delivery.
it's the delivery that causes emotion. lack of tact, or desire to confront and clash, for example.
viewing subjectively or objectively doesn't imply anything about emotions.
you can be objective about something, and warm in your delivery.
you could also be subjective and cold.
| >>668265
If you don't know how to balance stuff, I'm sorry. I said objective and positive, didn't? I really don't care about your "Uh WElL TeChNiCally", because that's not the point of this thread.
I care about people. I care about them a lot, and want the best for them. Being objective is my way of caring. If they ask for advice, I'll tell them where they fucked up and why the other side isn't wrong. I'll also tell them how they can fix the situation and that it's ok to fuck up.
| >>668299
idk, from the replies i got the feeling that some people needed it explained, but it could be just me...
| >>668298 Perhaps I've explained poorly. I'm not arguing a technicality, I'm saying that I don't think anybody can be objective. One can try to act more objectively, but never>see things for what they actually are.
I'm not saying that people are inherently not-objective. I'm saying that there's no standard of objectivity or true way everything is that everyone strives for, which I don't think I communicated well. That being said, there is a general agreement we can try to reach.
| >>668278 let's not derail the thread. you can use my discord: MysteryPig#2131 or this email: [email protected] if you'd like to have an uninterrupted conversation or you could make another thread on /new/
| >>668338
That is what a technicality is, yeah.
>>668339
Yeah, thank you. Derailing ain't gucci.
>>668341
There's no need to derail it because of that though. I'm able to talk for myself.
| >>668343
I have no idea what you meant with that last part because I wasn't talking to you or even about you.
I think you're coming of as a bit douchy tbh
| >>668347
Why is it douchy that I don't enjoy by threads getting derailed? 60-70% of my threads get derailed by someone, and it's not fun.
| This is >>f20f1a speaking:
>>668343 You could say it's a technicality, but...
If you are attempting to be objective, you're attempting to observe the world correctly. If you consider objectivity to be good, you're considering correct observations to be good. Then, when you encounter someone with a different observation of the world, you're setting up a position where you're determining whether yourself or the other was more correct and thus who was better/more skilled/etc. (1/5)
| If there was a standard of objectivity, you could say that one of the two was closer to the truth, and be done. But because it is based on observation and an object-oriented view of the world, it's pretty reasonable to say two people could have seen/reasoned/etc differently, without being less objective or even less correct. (2/5)
| In other words, striving for objectivity means striving for a single correct way to see, interpret, or do things, and thus that that single correct way exists (not that that isn't true of any other mindset). But being human means we'll see/interpret/do things differently without necessarily having been wrong. So, I think it's more pertinent that we realize that there is no true objectivity than a technicality, but maybe you don't see it as such. (3/5)
| Funnily enough it seems this whole dialog is a result of a misconception because upon looking back at our first two messages it certainly looks like you interpreted this line:
>the act of striving towards objectivity is itself emotionally motivated
in a way where the motivation to be objective came from the desire to have a better emotional state, (4/5)
| but what I meant is closer to "the reason one wants to be objective is because they are emotionally invested [in being correct, and thus better than someone who is wrong]." Not that that was a failing on either of our parts, but because of English being nonspecific and nonagreement of implied content. (5/5)
That was longer than expected. Sorry if that was too tangential.
| >>668390
Well, wasn't it you who started the derailment in the first place? The guy you responded to was entirely on topic and you just had to congratulate him for "explaining the topic to himself" despite his post being slightly different from yours.
And then you continued to engage in off-topic posts yet somehow you seem to expect people not to reply to them?
Come on, g/u/rl.
And to clarify, no it's not douchy to want to stay on topic. That's now what I meant.
| >>668424
I don't. I simply accept that I have a differing world view to them.
>>668426
I've been trying to explain for quite some time now that I know there isn't any "one true objectivity", but you keep explaining it over and over again.
>>668428
Well, then you've just understood me. I don't strive for "perfect information". I use it, as I said, as a way to be more emotionally stable. It's easier to solve problems, it's beasiernto understand things, it's easier to remain calm.
| >>668431
Yeah, it was. I guess it's partly my fault. I just dislike it when someone completely miss the point of what I'm trying to say. This thread was about a mindset that I'm an advocate for, not about the extremely obvious fact that it's not possible to be purely objective. I'm well aware of that. I've explained that I'm fully aware of that. I've explained that that's not the point of the thread and this is probably gonna get 5 replies saying the same thing over and over again.
| Fuck it. I'll just be straight up with this. I was mentally exhausted and in not a great mood when I responded to the first messages. On top of that I'm not good at understanding things unless they are written or said very clearly. Because of that there was a misunderstanding. I didn't know there was one, and then I just got annoyed that all the messages were just the same thing written slightly differently, even though there was a reason for it being that way.
| So basically, I'm just being autistic, trying to argue with someone who's also autistic, and, well, that usually never goes anywhere. I've experienced that way too many times, but still have a hard time understanding it when it happens.
| >>668448 It's surprisingly easy to spend a lot of time arguing with someone you for the most part agree with. I guess I responded to your demeanor more than your content, especially in the beginning.
For what its worth, I was not trying just to state that there was no true objectivity multiple times, but to add why it's important to recognize that as well. I wasn't arguing that there is/isn't true objectivity, but whether or not that mattered.
| >>00f0f6
>>bef904
I was these posters, and even though I think my messages were not meant to do any harm, I can understand the comment about explaining things to myself.
My intent was to explain slightly differently that feelings and objectivity are not proven and correlated opposites.
Which is the same point as OP, indeed.
Didn't want to escalate further, because in the end OP was right.
I'm glad someone takes my defense
>⁄(⁄ ⁄•⁄ω⁄•⁄ ⁄)⁄
Not gonna blame OP for being in a bad mood.
| >>668724
Ay, I mean, I wasn't treating the situation correctly either. It's definitely not all on you. Being in a bad mood is an explanation for why I acted like that, but it's not an excuse. I'm glad you understand though :)
-OP
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| I feel like those two things are very important. Viewing things and situations purely objectively, and finding positivity in that, is the the mindset that's keeping me alive.
I feel like I'm sometimes perceived as cold or mean because of it, but in the end I feel like it benefits people to see things for what they actually are, and work through things and situations based on what they actually are, not just doing things based purely on how they feel.