This thread is permanently archived
I'm fucking tired
| There was just a "trans debate" here, and shit was fucking pathetic.
Just transphobic politicians and people with power constantly, very intentionally, misgendering a trans woman who was there. Saying that legalising a non-binary gender category would be bad for the country and biologically wrong and ruin the youth and turn the whole world into trannies and pseudo-scientific bullshit and "trans people aren't valid" spewed throughout the entire fucking thing.
| Norway is an extremely cancerous country in that the common consensus between people in power is that "everyone's political stance is valid". So if you for example say you hate minorities and that we should legalise slavery then that's fine as long as you call it a "political opinion" instead of hate speech and degeneracy.
So the whole thing was just a circle jerk of transphobes crying and screaming and spreading misinformation whule not letting the trans woman there speak.
| And that was it. No actual talking. No fucking discussions. No common sense. Just a trans woman being shamed, misgendered and screamed at for hours live on TV and if anyone tried to call it transphobic or disrespectful they got yelled at because "everyone's opinion is just as valid and you shouldn't shame other for their ​beliefs".
I fucking despise what this country has become, and I still don't have basic fucking rights despite people trying to claim I do.
Yay.
| Oh, and that's also a really quirky little fun thing here. If someone talks about how we need basic human rights for LGBTQ+ people and minorities in general, they're immediately silenced and calling disgusting and shamed and shit.
If someone says to the people doing shaming and shit that "Ay. Don't be transphobic. Come on now." then they're screamed at for apparently "being against freedom pf speech". But when a trans person gets silenced it's "rightfully so and how it should be".
| Mad props to her though for not breaking once and staying calm throughout that entire thing.
But this country is just fucking disgusting and tries to hide it with blatant virtue signaling and the appearance they put on for other countries.
I can literally get screamed at, harrased, and force into conversion therapy if some transphobes are having a bad day and throw a fit. But if I say this country is inherently transphobic I get "You have fully riguts and are luckier than most."
| Like, I'm expected to be grateful for being born here. But I don't have the right to legally be myself. Me not being cis lowers my chance of both getting and keeping a job. I constantly hear transphobic shit both behind my back and directly. If I turn on the news I see people saying people like me don't exist and the ones who claim to be anything other than cis are a danger to children and are ruining the country.
Like, wtf is there to be grateful for?
| Our big public hospital has a whole program for trans people that's supposed to be technically free, but I can't get hormones or anything from there, because get what? It's fucking transphobic and excludes every type of non-binary person and denies almost every binary trans person any treatment at all. So what's the fucking point of it?
I have to buy shit privately from my doctor, but to do that is also not guaranteed. Like, in the slightest.
| Because to get it, I need a therapist to tell them that I should get it. But the doctor can still deny me anything if they're transphobic. And my gender therapist that I managed to get, well, she has to fucking fight teeth and nails and do certain things solo and semi-secretly, because, guess what? The "council" or whatever it's called within the mental health department here, is fucking transphobic, and tried to blame my gender dysphoria on mental health issues from the past.
| They had to go in and rewrite parts of my papers from before and write lots of new ones, because my records there were, you guessed it, transphobic, and written as if my gender identity wasn't real, ignoring preffered pronouns, and the other therapists there who had nothing to do with my gender therapy sessions went in a tried to connect my gender dysphoria to shit that's completely unrelated and trying to make me sound like a danger to society.
Fuck this whole entire country.
| *hug*
as a Canadian i feel u on that dissonance between how other people see our countries vs the dogshit realities any minorities or vulnerable demographics face
| Gender identity is overrated.
| Also most cases of "misgendering" implies "granmatical gender"="gender identity", which is from a linguists point of view wrong and from a social point of view problematic. This implication even may result in more discrimination, not only by the cis-majority but especially between the gender minorities. Also there are many other factors of a persons identity that are in most cases more important than gender. In the end it's all about majorities randomly scapegoating minorities.
| Look. Why is it even a discussion? This is something I don't understand. Why does it matter if someone misgenders another, unless the possibility of sex is involved?
Gender is literally the least important aspect of a person's personality.
As someone from Louisiana, the majority of the 'hate' I've seen is focused not on how trans folk dress or want to be addressed, but on how for most of them, that's ALL they are. They define themselves as just that one thing and have no depth
| Or existence except as a trans person.
As in, they can't just be a hair dresser or a card dealer, they have to add the transgender qualifier to it, as if that means they get to be held to a different standard of quality in whatever it is they're doing.
It's evident in artists most especially. Lack of skill is covered for by a claim of being trans as if that means they don't need to work as hard.
| >>828549 >>828553
Yes. There's a lot more parts to ones identity than gender. But let's not pretend like gender doesn't play a very big role in society when it comes to how people view and treat you and such.
What you said at the end is facts though. It's majority treating a minority like shit to take blame away from themselves for shit and create fear and hatred towards people to distract the rest of the majority.
| >>828557 >>828559
No lol. You obviously don't know anyone who's trans. You should talk to people instead of blindly believing stereotypes.
You haven't faced a single one of the hardships I go through every single fucking day. If you don't know what it's like to walk out the door every day knowing full well there are mobs of people who'd murder you given the chance. If you don't deal with people shaming you and dragging you through the mud for nothing but existing. Then don't talk.
| People like you are exactly what I'm talking about. You read all of the potentially life ruining things, degradation, shaming, inhumane treatment, disrespect and occasionall violence that people like me have to deal with on a daily basis. And what do you say?
"Respecting someone only matters if you're tryna fuck them" and then spew off some ridiculous stereotype that applies to less than 0.1% of trans people as if it's a fucking excuse for it.
You're disgusting.
| >>828563
>If you don't know what it's like to walk out the door every day knowing full well there are mobs of people who'd murder you given the chance.
I literally had an active kill bounty on my head for 5 years. So save the melodrama until you've had people ACTUALLY try to kill you.
And no, I didn't say respecting someone only matters if you're trying to fuck them, I said *gender* only matters if you're trying to fuck them.
Don't misrepresent what I said through the lense of-
| -your persecution complex.
99.9% of the world just simply doesn't care what your gender or business is. Which is no different from *anyone* else in the world.
Or does being unable to check the specific box you want really utterly destroy your self-image? Learn to just not care. It isn't really that hard.
| >>828568
That, but for life, with no profit incentive. With no reasoning. Just out of pure hatred for the fact that I exist.
Intentionally misgendering people, which is what I talked about, is disrespectful. So I'm not twisting your words in the slightest.
>>828569
You can sit in your little bubble and pretend like that's the case. I used to think so too. But that changed very fucking quickly when I started getting bullshit thrown at me every day without even talking about it.
| >Learn to just not care
I wish that was an option I had. But people shove their hatred down my throat every day and actively make my life harder, just ignoring that isn't gonna do shit.
It's not about my self-image. I fucking love myself. Genuinely, truly love myself and am happy with who I am.
But transphobia affects my quality of living. My life expectancy. My personal relationships. Little every single little aspect of my life gets affected by those people.
| Just pretending like it doesn't exist and isn't a problem is fucking retarded. If I have cancer, that cancer isn't gonna disappear from me acting like I don't have it.
People who I don't even know try to pry into my personal life. Treat me like shit. Can get me literally tortured (conversion therapy). Stick their nose into every little thing I do. Try to force me to conform to what they want and scream at and threaten me if I don't.
"Just don't care" isn't gonna change that fact.
| I mean, you're a great example of that with those first two comments. I'm an artist, and I put my heart and soul and everything into my craft and constantly do my best to improve and make the very finest that I possibly can. I dedicate my fucking life to it.
But I'm open about who I am, so I get people who assume shit like what you said. I see other trans artists get mass reported and have their shit taken down as soon as they gain a little bit of traction just for being trans.
| So, is asking for basic human rights really that bad? Think about it. If nobody cared what my gender identity is, why do I get less rights for it? If nobody cared, wouldn't it make sense for me to be treated with basic human decency? If nobody cared, why do people scream at people like me for asking such a simple request as wanting to be viewed as a human being?
That's what the real world is like.
Idk where you live homie, but that's what life is like here. Sorry to tell you.
| >>828575
If your art is good, it should be able to stand on its own merit, without any qualifiers about who the artist is.
I'm sorry if your personal experience really is so terrible, but your experience of the 'real' world. Is quite different from the one I've seen.
Your dismissive language and automatic assumption that because something's been done to you a certain way, that's the way it is everywhere is disingenuous though. Also, I feel like you're overvaluing how human-
| -life is considered in general. No one is special. No one is valuable or deserves unearned respect.
| There's no such thing as basic human rights that you just 'get'. There's only rights earned through violence and the implicit threat of violence.
| >>828577
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But from my experience there's a lot of people who dismiss art completely just because the artist isn't cis.
I'm sure it's different from the one you've seen. We live different places, and you (and I assume nobody close to you) are affected by transphobia.
You can feel that. But if I make a thread about how it is here and my experiences with it here, that's what I'm gonna talk about. Not how it might potentially be for others somewhere I don't live.
| >>828578
Basic respect is something most people do get though. I'm not talking respect as in looking up to someone or some shit. I'm talking about not being threatened, treated as inferior and having people tear into you over nothing. I'm talking about people not intentionally saying you're something you're not purely out of spite when they don't even know you.
When I'm talking about respect in this sense, I'm talking about people not being an absolute cunt to you for no reason.
| If you think it's aight for people to me and absolute fucking cunt to strangers for no reason, that's kinda weird.
>>828579
There are though. Every white cishet person in my country have their basic human rights covered. At least the ones who aren't poor, which is the vast majority of them.
They have their rights covered, and they haven't done shit for it. They just get it here simply from being born with those majority traits.
| *be an
Violence shouldn't be necessary for that when so many people here already get it.
But every day that passes I'm more and more convinced that there's no other option. Because when we try to talk and have peaceful protests, we're silenced.
This thing that they give all those people, they don't give to minorities, and they scream at us if we even try to mention that fact.
| Like, no joke. If I'm on the Norwegian side of any social media app and say something as basic as and single sentence as "There's a lot of transphobia in Norway." my notifications the next day will be filled with random people saying shit like "You shouldn't have rights", "you're delusional", "people like you are ruining this country", "trannies aren't real you just pretend to be for attention", etc.
And if I bring it up irl? Oh god. That's always a fucking mess.
| Even if I try to bring up the issue of transphobia in Norway, during, like, a conversation about serious topics and issues in the country, people who seemed chill just a second ago will start saying shit like "No. That's not real." and "I don't wanna fuck a tranny, why is that a problem?" (without me saying anything about sex btw) and "Trannies are so sensitive. They should be grateful that they're allowed to live here."
Like, it's so fucking rampant and deep-rooted here.
| It's rampant and it's shoved down our throats daily, but if we talk about it we're the devil.
Shit hasn't even slightly improved the kadt few years. At times it honestly seems like it's going backwards.
Shit's got me thinking there genuinely is no other solution than a fucking revolution, but if I were to say that publicly (without disguising the message by saying it via art) then people would spin it to "Trannies are violent terrorists planning to ruin our country and kill us all"
| holy fuck the dismissiveness itt
people relly dont give a fuck about the rates of transmysoginistic violence, deaths etc
"just learn to not care"
wish it were that easy
| like i refuse to believe a trans person could be so callous unless they were in some Blair White shit
| >>828591
People love to ignore those fun little statistics.
>>828592
I mean, it's literally impossible.
| I mean like you can just live your life and not bring up trans stuff every 5 minutes right? I think that's what the other person was trying to get at. Like yeah people might be assholes but also if you know they're gonna be like that why bring it up?
| Trying to put some perspective on what that other Anon was getting at. A lot of queers (not just transpeople) especially young ones, do tend to be a little more outward about the LGBTQ part of their personality. For some people, it can feel like all they talk about.
| The thing is that when this happens, it's likely someone who just recently realized that they are queer. The stuff is new to them, so they'd want to toy around with it, talk about it, and explore it through conversation.
I don't think it's unreasonable for you to put up with some folk's eccentricities when they're new to the game. And if you really don't want to (for whatever reason) then just avoid the topic, and wait til they've settled into the new version of themselves.
| >>828597
We don't.
>>828598 >>828599
This.
Young people who are exploring themselves obviously talk about it a lot. Just like how young cis people talk about male/female stuff and young straight people talk about girls/boys and shit.
It's a part of growing up, regardless of gender identity or sexuality. It's just that people don't acknowledge it and think of it as normal when it's cishets. But when it's fags they get all upset over it and tell them to stop talking about it so much.
| >>828600
its probably the obnoxious ones on twitter and other socmed giving this impression. As usual, the few shitlords poison the well for the average person who just wants to grill.
| I myself have seen the kind of people who go so hard into lgbt stuff that it becomes their only personality trait. its the same as any genre- religious zealots, obnoxious otaku, nintendrones, die hard moba fanatics, literal cults, MLM's, etc. Their mission in life becomes to convert others to their thinly constructed cause, and those who aren't in their very narrow tribe are demonized, while their own allies are ostracized for not being radical enough.
| see also- vegans, crossfit, peta, greenpeace, Elon Musk fanboys, NFT cryptobros, Westboro Baptist Church, etc.
| >>828623
>Their mission in life becomes to convert others to their thinly constructed cause
That sounds and awful lot like what cishets do though. Telling kids that being cis and straight is the only way. Trying to force anyone who isn't to conform with that. Demonizing others and people who aren't radical enough for them.
Difference being that with trans stuff that's less than 1% of less than 1%. And with cishets they're such a majority that those people control schools and shit.
| So, yeah. As you said, a few shitlords. But from everything I've seen, those are usually young teens who don't really understand that kinda stuff yet. Which, you know, goes under this >>828600
I also see a lot of people get accused for being like that just for having pride flag colours in some of the drawings they post or in a banner or something. Which, like, doesn't make sense. There's a big difference between positivity and, you know, that.
| Basically what I'm trying to say is that the amount of adult people who are like that with LGBT stuff are, well, such a miniscule amount not just worldwide but even within the LGBT community, that they literally don't have an impact on a single little thing in the world.
But for some reason people act like there's a lot of them or like that's how most are or whatever.
Like, that but in the opposite direction (alpha male bullshit and such) is far more common and way more impactful.
| tmw people are literally describing fringe fuckin weirdoes as if they are actually indicative or emblematic of lgbt overall
no
theyre just the ones you decided to hyperfocus on to supoort internal biases whereas the vast majority are just posting about the same topical shit as anyone else
i swear people basically tell on themselves constantly
| >>828719
>i swear people basically tell on themselves constantly
Oh, they do. They do all the time, but they're so fucking oblivious to the fact that they do that it's almost funny.
| Well, on a positive note, I might actually get my hormones soon.
Even though the doctor has to call up and talk with another doctor (who the government hates, which is something I could honestly go on a huge rant about) in order to get the resources needed for providing me with it safely, and also dodge Rikshospitalet (basically just a big hospital in Oslo with a lot of power over entire Norway's healthcare system) and risk losing the right to give HRT if they find out.
| But, ay. It'll probably be alright. I don't think Rikshospitalet gives much of a shit about my town.
And, I mean, the only way he might lose that right to give HRT is if Rikshospitalet finds out.
It's not fully legal for normal doctors to give HRT here, but if they do it without input from Rikshospitalet then Rikshospitalet might get a little pissy and take away that right. It's happened multiple times to different doctors. Especially in Oslo.
Which is just, fucked up.
| Like, Rikshospitalet is openly transphobic. They deny treatment to non-binary people, don't let that many binary trans people do it either (and in order to even have a chance to get it you have to play fucking dressup and make yourself look like a caricature, like, dress up as an extreme trans stereotype, because according to the doctors there "you're not a real tranny" if you don't), so, like, just simple HRT is extremely complicated and has to be done under the table here.
| There's always diy. Just make sure you become a SME before you actually start.
Bodily autonomy before all else.
https://diytrans.wiki/Main_Page
| >>829210
I know there's diy but when I have the option to get it from a doctor I'd rather do that.
And if Rikshospitalet somehow were to find out and tale away that right to give HRT, they can't legally tale away the right to give it go current patients from my understanding. They can only take away the right to give HRT to new patients.
So even in worst case, it's more or less secured for me.
But thank you for sharing resources regardless. That's really kind and some may need it.
| >>829234
It's no big thing. I don't have to have an opinion on your choices to support your right to make them.
| >>829210
I'm not even trans but I appreciate the wiki section on dieting and exercise regimens. Thanks g/u/rl.
| Bruh moment
| >>829238
I don't think I said you do?
But, anyways, appreciate it. Good shit.
>>829293
Workout stuff made with trans people in mind is often, like, really good for just, everyone. Like, some of the best workout content I've ever seen has been from people who specifically make workout programs for trans people, but that works super well for cis people too. You should search some up.
| And maids are now silent~
This thread is permanently archived
| First of, hate putting trans shit in /new/, but apparently that's what the maids want.
So, Norwegian tranny back at it again complaining about Norway's public appearance VS reality.
It's so fucking annoying when trans (and some non-trans) people think I have it easier than most for living in Norway. The country where login in to a website and checking of a little box is all you need to change your legal gender (only if you're binary of course, which I ain't).