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Some people are impossible to converse with
| The left and the right have no rift, there is no longer a left and right. There's reality and there's denial. A subset of the population that can't accept reality does not need nor deserve a civil conversation.
| It sucks. My friends and family are largely right-wing. They're brainwashed and can't see it for themselves. I have no interest in discussing any political topics with them because they're controlled by propaganda. I'm seething mad at the leaders that hypnotized them. They took my loved ones from me and corrupted their worldview.
| I'm baffled how their leaders get caught lying over and over again, yet still have god-like respect by the vast majority of Republicans.
| >>755633
Echo chambers. Who reports it when they get caught lying? I'll give you a hint: Exactly none of the "news" outlets these people use. And sending them a legit source does nothing, because all the sources they trust have repeatedly told them that everything coming out of "left-wing media" outlets are lies and "leftist propaganda." We have no plan to counter echo chambers right now, so it'll only get worse.
| The 1% can't win against 99%. However, if 99% fights itself, the 1% will only have to wait patiently until the 99% destroys itself to win.
| Yanks
| I know what you mean. You can have a conversation with anyone no matter their political stance except for the far right. It is utterly impossible.
At least if you let them talk they'll discredit themselves. They... just don't seem to live in the same reality as everyone else. It's almost flat-earth tier levels of denial.
| Isn't it because modern progressivist movements become obsolete? Feels like people had long forgotten how progress work. Maybe "the flip" will happen soon, but it doesn't for some reason.
| I feel the same way on the left. Like I support progressive policies, but I don't support Dems saying platitudes and shaming publicly while privately doing policies that are far-right. And maybe cause the Snowpiercer movie is in my head, but fuck scientists like Fauci who lie publicly because he is calculating that less people will die if he lies. Science community, stop fucking doing that. Just be transparent
| >>755631
>there is no longer a left and right
Your little horseshoe theory isn't becoming true just because you repeat it over and over again.
| >>755717 >people cant dislike both the left and the right because I belive only one of them is right, anyone who thinks both are bad are full of propaganda and conspiracy theories.
| The "heavily online leftists" have also gotten like this recently. About once a month I get a self-proclaimed anti fascist in one of my discord servers saying, "you're with us or you're against us! any respect shown towards the enemy means you are the enemy! they're so intrinsically incorrect, they don't count as humans!" Twitter is a tumor on the collective brain of humanity and I blame it entirely for this group's existence.
| >>755768 lowest ratings ever and lots of racial commentary little to no interesting moments and awards that felt a bit unfair
| My parents always said "Don't believe everything that you read online! There are a lot of liars on the internet!"
| >>755632 propaganda didnt corrupt their worldview. Your friends and family were just stupid lol (assuming they just believed what was fed to them without thinking) and even stupider to not at least listen to a loved one
| >>755829
>just because they believed the propaganda they got fed it doesn't mean that propaganda corrupted them!!1
...wat?
| >>755834 ofc. Just like how you are supposed to think before believing the internet, or when the news reports a scientific finding, or when someone cites a sketchy looking source for a high school report. Ppl arent victims. They have the capacity to think and reason thru what is being given to them. Crossreference, check for validity, etc. Why would it be the propagandas fault? U alone r responsible for ur thoughts and what u believe. It isnt brainwashing, its just being dumb lol.
| Now if they did all that and still came to the conclusion that their position is worth fighting for, then they arent dumb. At that point, they can discuss with other viewpoints and change/maintain their stance accordingly. At that point, OP is the dumbass for not understanding why theirs is different from OPs view.
| >>8df371
Are you genuinelly trying to make the claim that propaganda never works? Or are you claiming that it does indeed work, but somehow isn't resonsible for its own consequences?
Because if you are, then I suggest that you practice what you preach and think about it a little bit more before believing such ridicilous claims.
Could it be possible that the only dumbass here is you and that all you're doing is projecting?
| >>88951c yes i am. At least it shouldnt work. Why u getting all worked up anyway? All u did was throw an insult without even trying to refute my basic reasoning. Ill make it clear for u since u r unable to read properly: if u can compare prices when grocery shopping, u should be able to decide if the propaganda is worth following or not. The average person is absolutely capable of doing this so ofc i practice what i preach.
| Or, is this a troll based on the threads title, ie u r playing as someone i cant converse with. If so, u got me bro. Nice one xd
| To address your questions explicitly tho, im saying propaganda works depending on the audience. If most ppl wont follow it, then it failed. And even if ppl did follow and it succeeded, u cant say propaganda was responsible for it. It was the party or political leader that is responsible for releasing it and the population for believing it. Propaganda itself cant hold responsibility. Its just media. It cant do any harm by itself. Only thru ppl, thus ppl r to blame. Ez to understand?
| >>755857
So you got backed into a corner and went on the attack, like always, eh midia-kun?
I mean, you cry about being insulted but it's the *very same* insult that you yourself used in your previous post. Apparently it's only a problem when it effects you.
Like seriously, get a grip.
>>755861
In other words, exactly like OP said.
| What even is the point of your inane ramblings? You're aware that OP never explicitly blamed "propaganda to corrupt their worldview." like you claimed here: >>755829
It was 100% a misunderstanding on your part.
You throw around the word stupid a lot but if you can't even grasp what people are telling you, who's really the stupid one?
| >>755724
No matter how and how often you rephrase it: Horseshoe theory is wrong and ideologically driven by the right
| >>755861
According to both the Oxford Dictionary and Merriam Webster your linguistic interpretation of the word "responsibility" is wrong.
I don't know why you believe your interpretation to be the only correct one. Maybe you should do what you preached earlier and think things trough before you start believing them...
| >>755888 >only the right is evil because I read about it, so anyone who isnt on the left is actively trying to brainwash me
| >>755881 seems like ill have to repeat myself again. The dictionary reference is prob the first point you have made against me properly. Unfortunately, ppl that cite the dictionary for any point theyre trying to make have nvr taken a writing course for publishable quality papers. It basically holds no water. As for my main point that u still have yet to refute: propaganda is a thing, you cant put responsibility on it, only the ppl that issue and receive it.
| Just as you dont blame guns for murder but the ppl who perpetrate it and the ones that fall victim.
| That out of the way, other points:
I never said you couldnt throw insults, i said u could just throw insults. Insults are fine so long as u can back up ur pt, but in >>755854 u didnt make any points
| Now what i said in >>755861 is a different matter entirely. We started this convo not because of OP but because u came in with>>755834. After all, this is between u and me, not OP. U said propaganda was at fault and i gave rsns as to why not. In OPs case, the point was one step further, now that u have ppl to blame, who exactly gets the blame? It isnt just the leaders, the ppl receiving also deserve some. However, practically speaking it is far easier to just blame the receivers
| >>755901 tha is an interesting point, I wouldnt say you are 100% right but you do have a point so just ignore the insults, those people(usually the same 3) will bandwagon on any take that isnt remotely close to their opinion while thinking that they are the neutral all knowing spurces and immune to propaganda, criticizm and hypocrisy.
| It wasnt my intention to highlight that but ok. Any case, why blame receivers? Because its easier to solve the problem that way. Resisting "brainwashing" is a lot easier than trying to topple a political leader. Learning to fight is a lot easier than getting rid of all criminals.
| >>755904 thanks for the supportive words. Im fairly immune to insults since it rly isnt worth getting worked up about them. We're all strangers here anyway. If a good pt was made with an insult, id say the insult was well deserved and take one ,but that has yet to happen. You dont have to agree with me either, thats not important. What is important is if everyones pts r being read properly and responded to, which has yet to happen lol
| >There's no right wing or left wing there's just retards and left wing :)
>My family is indoctrinated because they don't believe this
| >>755898
>only the right is evil
No need to assume automatically evil, where stupidity would last out as explaination.
>because I read about it
Does something become right or wrong just by reading it?
>so anyone who isnt on the left is actively trying to brainwash me
I always thought I was politically moderate. But centrists®™ told me I'm an evil leftist extremist because I support gay marriage and I'm sceptical on capitalism. That was my personal experience with centrists®™.
| >>755961
You are a leftie therefore you are wrong and brainwashed. If you disagree it is because you are brainwashed. I'm actually not a right winger i'm a centrist just like you are!!
| Fellow centrist, am i right?
| >>755961 >I'm an evil leftist extremist because I support gay marriage and I'm sceptical on capitalism.
If they said that because of those spefic reasons, they are wrong, but if you are not telling the full story and just trying to paint yourself as the victim then just grow up, simple
| Unrelated friendly reminder that we live in a world where the OK hand sign is a white supremacy symbol because peopl on 4chan said so and media believed
| >>8df371 >>e28f13
Thanks for the demonstration. I always suspected OP was just baiting you guys to show up.
| >>755900
>ppl that cite the dictionary for any point theyre trying to make have nvr taken a writing course for publishable quality papers. It basically holds no water.
You think you know better than the established consensus among western linguistic scholars? You're fucking delusional, m8.
| >>e28f13 >>8df371
You guys know that OP never blamed propaganda for being responsible, right?
You've been flooding the thread with a counter-argument against a point that was never even made, you know that right?
And the topic of the thread was that some people are *impossible to converse with*.
He's talking about people like you. People who can't engage in a civil conversation without turning to self-delusions.
| >>755980
Tell me at least one "centrist" organisation, movement or even party that is open for capitalism criticism. All I know so far are neoliberal to the bones only distinguishable by different societal ideals from conservative to liberal.
Since criticisim on capitalism is generally considered to be left-extremists by "centrists", they are nothing but extremists in their own way to me.
| >>755901
Every weapons producer:
"responsibility"
Also every weapons producer:
"guns don't kill people"
| >>756112 depends on what you mean by "criticisim on capitalism", it can be from:
Moderate
>yeah not perfect, we should work on somethin else
To
Extreme
>why cant we implement X? X is the only solution for capitalism, it was made to be it, we must do it otherwise we die! Everybody that sees the flaws on capitalism but doesnt want X is wrong, we need to make them follow X even if we have to force it
Like, a lot of centrists have the moderate version
| >>756115
>yeah not perfect, we should work on somethin else
This is also considered to be extreme by all "centrists" I met so far.
| >>756115
>Like, a lot of centrists have the moderate version
Tell me at least one political organization, movement or party that is considered to be "centrist" and have a moderate version of capitalism criticisim. I don't know one. Social democracy is considered to be left extremists by centrists. Even left-liberals are considered to be left extremists ("cultural marxism") by centrists.
| The right successfully managed to shift the public perception of political alignment to their needs. The far right even tries to twist it by calling leftists the new fascists while actual fascists portray themselves as "reasonable" and "based". All of this already has occurred before - at least one time. And now everything is repeating and people don't recognize it. Again the same issues covered by the same lies.
| >>756166 you are not everybody and even then, if they say that, they are just wrong, no need to assume all centrists are right wing because some of personal experience got muddled with assholes
| >>756167 because most of the times the people they call left wing are left wing, they arent gonnal call left wing centrism just like they wont call right wing centrism
| These institutions dont call themselves centrists, they dont talk about centrists so why would the center call them centrists?
Its like advertising a product as not for cis white men and then wonder why cis white men arent buying it and calling them racists homophobes who hate woman for not buying it
Dont expect centrists to just agree with you as they usually disagree alot
| There is center right, center left and argue a lot but they also agree to disagre and usually respect eachother, like most average and normal people do.
| >>756119 i did. I am>>8df371 after all. I highlighted the posts that refute urs. That is, i was civil, i was already aware that the person i was speaking with may have been as the title suggested and i already explained that my points toward op and who i was talking with were different. Thats the summary of the posts i linked. U wouldve gotten that, minus the civil part cuz thats debatable, if u read properly.
| U can say whatever insults u want, thats fine, just back it up, u kno. Ive already posted that statement before too
| Everyone here is like 20 yrs old or less or spends way too much time on twitter/reddit. Pretty confident on that one cuz the first reaction that im sure ill be met with when i say i dont care much for these topics and am only here to mildly troll is another insult without any rebuttal to the points ive made prior. Nobody reads. They just bite at the very first thing that puts them over someone else. Ik cuz im not immune to it, but i sure can recognize when i do it lol.
| >>756202 whoops, my bad. Sorry bout that. Yea it was indeed a misunderstanding on my part then. Got confused as to who was talking bout who since ids r based on ip it seems. My dumbass moment kek
| >>756193
This is textbook projection btw.
I still don't see anyone taking responsibility or even admitting to misunderstanding OP and derailing the thread.
This is proof that you people can't be conversed with.^
You can't even stick to the subject line and have to resort to fallacies to get your points across.
| >>756287
You're just pissed that people don't can be controlled here in the way you want it. This whole thread disproves the headline, since people are conversing here. It would be a unnecessary and stupid restriction to isolate the issues OP originally described, since they probably are part of other and even bigger issues. This isn't derailing but expanding the discourse. What you do is just trying to control and dominate the discourse without contributing actual arguments.
| >>756383
>This whole thread disproves the headline, since people are conversing here.
Maybe if you read the entire argument instead of only the headline you'd realize how incorrect you are.
>It would be a unnecessary and stupid restriction to isolate the issues OP originally described
If OP wanted to talk about a certain topic it would be unnecessary and stupid to divert said topic into a completely different one. It just solidifies that you can't be conversed with.
| >>756383
And you still haven't had the balls to acknowledge that you misunderstood OP and built your entire off-topic debate on a faulty foundation that has been pointed out several times in this thread.
Your entire argumentation is built on quicksand and holds no ground, yet you are too self-delusional to see it.
Please keep denying it for our entertainment though. You keep proving OPs point with every post of yours and it's hilarious.
| >>756421 quick questions:
1: if op cares, why arent they here?
2: are you speaking on ops behalf because you dont want people to talk about stuff you dislike?
3: have you been to an actual conversation irl to be able to talk about how it should be with such conficence?
| >>756425 you are pissed because>>14b262 isnt saying what you want so you resort to trying to paint them as the idiot and its hilarious
| >>e28f13
You are free to reply to my actual content any time you want. But it's obvious that you can't and therefor is impossible to converse with. I have laid out actual arguments for this and you have yet to respond, instead resorting to a defensive stance of fallacies and diversion.
I'm just dropping truth bombs here and you guys aren't mentally equipped to handle it.
| Lets start at square one then. Pls state again what ur actual content was. I will, as i always have, address it directly, then we'll see how it ends up again.>>88951c
| >>756433 nice dodge from the question, "I said truth bombs, you cant face it" *ignores the questions
| >>756437 are that much of a narccisistic asshole that you think you have the power to judge other's opinions?
| >>756433
>You are free to reply to my actual content any time you want.
>But it's obvious that you can't and therefor is impossible to converse with.
Seems more like it's impossible to converse with you, with that attitude.
| >>756506 it'd be a lot cooler if they explained their "truth" so we all could know where they stant but it seems they don't want to converse
| >>756506
You still haven't replied to be the actual content. You're still making up excuses. IE the post you quoted turned out to be 100% correct.
>>756519
It's been mentioned several times in this thread. If you can't follow it you're unable to participate in the conversation and therefor prove yourself wrong.
| It seems like every thread are full of people who gets proven wrong only to turn around, pretend like nothing happened, and try to make the same argument again...
..only to be proven wrong with minimal effort a second time.
What are these retards even trying to accomplish? To quote Einstein:
>Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results
| >>756801
It's how echo chambers operate. You just repeate a lie often enough until you start believing in it. That's the rhetoric they're operating on and it doesn't seem like they're mentally able to debate in any other way.
Makes for fun fodder on slow nights though. They're here to stay(and everyone knows they're not gonna learn/adapt/change) so we might as well embrace the suck and jank them around for our amusement.
| >>756799 dude, just repeat your point again to confirm that we are all on the same page. We arent u. We might interpret your point differently than you had intended. All gain n no harm from repeating points so others can understand. Yet u decide instead to throw out yet another insult with nothing to back it up. It isnt productive.
| >>756804
>dude, i can totally have a conversation just hold my hand and guide me trough it just because youve told me 4 times already it doesnt mean that i cant follow the converation it just means im more productive than you
| >>756850 thats the thing bud. In my discourse with>>88951c i have fucking repeated myself 4 times over. U didnt read the thread. Even 4 times wasnt enough to get it thru, so all i can do is repeat it again, possibly in a different manner. U ever tutored b4? U r gonna get nowhere calling them stupid. U r just stroking ur own dick
| Some people will just get pissy bring 2 to 4 alts to repeat the same arguement and insult whoever is against them just to seem like their opinion is valid because it looks like a bigger narrative. Its like a bear trying to look bigger but its just a red panda panicking
| >>756854
>Even 4 times wasnt enough to get it thru, so all i can do is repeat it again
"If it doesn't work all I can do is do the same thing over and over"
S.M.A.R.T
|
| Dude, you are impossible to converse with.
>am not!
Then why aren't you participating in the converation?
>i lost track of it
Doesn't that just prove my point?
>b-but if you do half the work for me then i can prove that i can be in the conversation too! if you dont then its all your fault!
You're fucking pathetic.
| >>756444
>>>756437 are that much of a narccisistic asshole that you think you have the power to judge other's opinions?
Yes, he is. That is the only thing we both agree on. Nice to see you two devouring eachother when you focus on the actual content instead of the ID.
| >>756883 you too are stupid on many levels, in order to have a convo I need to be on either Your side or>>8df371 side? Get out, I have my own opinions and I dont need to agree 100% with anybody, thats the point of a conversation
This thread is permanently archived
| I used to call myself conservative because I believe in capitalism, free markets and limited government. The thing is, modern "conversatism" does not believe this and I'm realizing it really never was. That's just the propaganda they use to get votes so they can continue pulling their con.