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Soviet Union Fall cause?
| It fell for a reason, while there is still arguemenst as of why it fell, all that matters is that it fell
| >>744005
It's Midia-chan. She's the epitome of talking without saying anything because she doesn't know shit worth saying.
Unless you want her to derail this thread too it's best to ignore her completely.
| >>744005 there isnt much to say, whatever anyone says here there will be a whole debate about capitalism x communism and it will become a shit flinging, name calling show and it already started>>15c5c2 is just here to be toxic and not to talk about the issue, it speaks a whole lot about the people here.
| >>25cf77 >>87bd40
I admit I know very little of the collapse of the Soviet Union but this thread made me bury myself in the wikipedia article. Not that it necessarily made me any wiser though considering the two leading explanations seems pretty reasonable.
It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the Soviets 1% pushed for capitalism since it would benefit them economically and politically.
I'm more interested in your view considering you're likely more educated then me on the topic.
|
-Many factors affected the Soviet Union's economy including the nuclear race, the Chernobyl disaster, and the war against Afghanistan
-During USSR's economic crisis, military officials and politicians kept their luxurious lives while the general public suffered from extreme poverty
|
-The sudden freedom of speech Gorbachev instated pushed people to revolt against the communist regime by exposing its many flaws
-After the independence of all 15 neighboring countries, the USSR lost most of its internal influence and power which led to its downfall
>>0142c4
We're all sick of you so why don't you just fuck off already? Retard.
| Hm guess the soviets werent the only ones who had a shoot on sight policy towards those they disliked geez louise let it go, I aint even doing anything and yall come hitting me for free.
| This sounds like a high school ib essay question tbh. I'm not a history enthusiast but if you read around on google scholar you will be sure to find some stuff.
| >>744251
Considering not even history scholars can agree on why it happened it's kinda dishonest to frame it as a high school essay question, don't you think?
| >>744306 yep there is no definitive answer ofc.
But generally high school essays use that kind of format sort of makes me reminiscence about it. I think this question is really worth talking about regardless.
besides most high school essays generally end in, the cause was multifactorial
| >>744371 its one those "answer with your own words" type of question, those were the worst since they were ambiguous to both answer and to grade.
| Common sense
| >>743863
The main causes for the USSR fall were its economical-technological struggles in the 80s, facing an advanced west, delayed societal reforms like in the west and finally the Afghanistan war.
It made the soviet leadership realize and admit that they weren't what they believed to be (or at least made people believe to - on both sides). But it also enabled the capitalists to become, do and show exactly that what they were criticized for by "communists". That's were we are now.
| >>744074
>military officials and politicians kept their luxurious lives while general public suffered from extreme poverty
Something which wasn't fixed at all by introducing capitalism there - in the opposite: Things got much worse.
| Two words OP - Jewish conspiracy.
| >>744409
It undeniably did make the issues worse that existed in the soviet republics and some of the ussrs satellites. Not just that the worst of the ex-"communists" leadership just have become oligarchs and conservative/nationalist or even neoliberal politicians. No corruption, (organized) crime and mass poverty haven't been solved at all by capitalism and authoritarianism is still there. Because capitalism can't solve any problems. It just can shift them across place and time.
| Communism is extremely good. Any monarchist-type government that arises from communism is extremely bad.
Capitalists are the ones who destroyed communism.
| >>745172
Things like monarchy, russian or chinese imperialism, third world countries nationalism, mass surveillance and militarism are a perversion of the communist idea. Only few revolutionaries really cared about communism and knew exactly what they did. And they lost. They lost to greedy and power hungry people in their own ranks and finally against greedy and power hungry capitalists who successfully ruled through sugar-bread and whip:
- bread and games
- divide and conquer
| Nevertheless, as long capitalism is a thing, communism will be a thing too. The battle in't over yet as there is no "end of history".
| >>745428
Also the bad things I mentioned aren't exclusive to failed communist experiments. They still exist and even flourish in capitalism.
| name a successful country. they're capitalist. 100%. ALWAYS.
| >>745444
Yeah, except those who weren't. It's not like socialist/communist countries hadn't any successes at all. In the opposite: In many cases the previous (usually feudal or early capitalist) or following (usually capitalist) systems were or still are equally shitty or even worse.
Also capitalist countries always were most successful when politics restricted capitalism through social and economical reform programmes (under pressure of anti-capitalist movements and countries)
| >>745976
COPE. The world is capitalist, because it WORKS. You're also necrobumping because you just can't let it go... triggered...
| >>745432
Yeah, enjoy your snootily until capitalism crisis after crisis intensifies.
But do me a favor and don't come up then with lame excuses about conspiracies by jews, communists, feminists or "minor races" or religious bullcrap explanations based on the will of supernatural beings. And even more i beg you not to come up with shady leaders and "final solutions" that seek to harm or murder random groups of people scapegoated for the failure of your beloved capitalist system.
| >>745977
Of course it works. That's why we don't have feudalism anymore. But it obviously and increasingly works better for the small group of capitalists than for the rest. There are undeniable and fundamental interest conflicts and contradictions that can't be solved in a humane way without resulting in a different system. It's just a question about the how and when.
| >>745978
you sound like you're part of an apocalyptic cult desperately waiting for capitalism to fall so that you're proven right
>>745979
what you're posting with was made with capitalism. the entire chain. your fat ass is being fed with capitalism. capitalism put a man on the moon and we boutta do it again on mars.
capitalism is succeeding.
| commies always whine about capitalism this capitalism that but all they got to show is decades of totalitarianism, social misery, and systematic executions.
| >>745981
It's the other way around: Currently most hardware is produced in a country ruled by a "communist party". Also most basic server software is at least based on open source or even free (as in freedom) software.
And ultimately, the most fundamental computer technologies were developed with public money.
Not capitalism and not only military research. Reform pressure caused by the sputnik-shock increased the social mobility of the US-education system was a development driver.
| >>745981
Apocalyptic, yes maybe. A cult? No. This apocalypse is predictable through logic, reason and empirism. No supernatural powers, no promise for redemption for serving them or their self proclaimed leaders. Just the simple conclusion that people can't really be free in a society that separates them into classes that continuously drift apart from each other.
| >>746207
To overcome the capitalist system of course. There are many different ways how to do it. I would always prefer the careful, peaceful, civilized and creative ones, as long opposing propaganda and repression allows it.
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why did it fall apart? Gorbachev stated vaguely it would have led to a worse outcome if it attempted to hold out due to some supposed internal strife.
Was it really all for the better?