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Thoughts on what happened this January?
| 1: bad, these people did something VERY wrong but I can see where they are comming from and their voices need to be heard otherwise things will not change.
2: beautiful, all my homies hate corps, any fair and legal opportunity to screw with big corps and possibly get money is to be applauded, may more things like this come in 2021
3: kill me
| The Gamestonk thing is beautiful. Exactly the kind of energy I want to bring into 2021.
| I feel like we had a lot of events of this scale last year but maybe not at this rate. Honestly, it's been distracting me from school a little bit, but it's also nice in a way
| What was that about the Capitol Raid? I've been out of the global news for a couple of months.
| im gonna be real dawg
take it to /new/
| Ah good we're on /new/ now. I can be spicier.
>>735359
>I can see where they are comming from and their voices need to be heard otherwise things will not change.
Where exactly do you think they are coming from and what changes exactly were you hoping for?
>>735388
Just a tl;dr, but a bunch of Trump supporters raided the Capitol early this month because they want Trump to stay as president, election result be damned.
| Their plan was like:
Step 1) raid capitol
Step 2) ???
Step 3) trump still president
So when they got inside they didn't really know what to do.
| So it was kind of a protest.
| January have a protest in Kazakhstan and russia
| i loved the capitol raid because it was essentially a big fuck you to everybody. no other movement would have that kind of balls to have american people intrude into the american people's chamber.
i really like the gamestonks thing as >>735362 >>735359 said, but it also is kind of sad to see that fucking 4chan, the home of 4 the lulz world-messing pranks couldn't come up with that. or maybe it did and reddit vacuum'd it up?
>>735457
ABSOLUTELY
brief me on the fallout shit?
| >>735405 most claims of fraud were not disproven or even presented in courts, they got dismissed by reasons like "you cant accuse before the election", "its too late, you should have done it during the elections", "why should we investigate it? Did it really made you lose the election", 2 cases that were presented got actualy disproven and 2 really had evidence of fraud.
| They kept saying how investigation was needless and how contesting it it was an inssurection even tho it was all legal proceedures that were being barred by either uninterest or burocracy.
How can people really know if there was fraud if there were almost zero investigation? How would 50% of the voters fell if their side was ignored like that? Why cant they ivestigate it like they did with the russia stuff?
I can understand why these people went to the capitol and why some rioted
| I do not aprove of the riot but I can see where they are comming from and if their voices were heard and more ivestigations happened, maybe, a good amount of people would have accpeted the results.
| >>735389
I'm sorry. My fault for posting this in /u/, My dumbass thought that it'd fit in there for whatever reason.
>>735460 Fallout: The Frontier is a huge Fallout: NV mod that was in making for 7 years, it was finally released at 25th of the past month. Fallout fans (and 4chan /v/) noticed the amount of fetish the mod had (eg. slave girl, feet and deathclaw sex) and everything went downhill from here.
| >>735359
1. No. Fascism is a major threat to democracy. Those voices don't need to be heard, they need to be silenced.
2. Big corps are big for reasons. Mostly because they are more productive and efficient than small ones. Bigger is better, unity is better than separation.
3. do it yourself.
| >>735534
1:inflamatory political propaganda has gotten the better of you, if you caree about healthy debate and unification you wouldnt be saying that
2:if you unify the 1% and make people depend on them them corruption and dictatorships are what happen, if centralization of power seems apealing to you then I recomend you to go to north korea or go back in time to live in a monarchy
3:in the game? Ok.
You are either bait or really naive
| >>735534 fascism is when people i don't like say things. the more things they say, the more fascister it is. that's why censoring them isn't fascist.
before you say I'm left or right wing for making fun of you, please realize that I can't even tell whether you're red team or blue team by that post.
| >>735543 its funny because he talks about shuting down peoples voices and how they need to be silenced yet he talks about how companies unifying and competing less is good, unity is only good when companies do it lol, the people tho, they gotta be silenced and separated to prevent facism from taking over, best thing I heard today.
| probably a self-inviting antifaggot
| For those still wondering why voter fraud claims weren't investigated, the answer is simple: the boy who cried wolf. Every 4 years if a dem is elected as president, the right cries voter fraud. If a rep is elected, dems cry out about voter suppression/intimidation. Rep never claim voter fraud when they win hence not worth investigations
| >>735655 because dems never claimed voter fraud but reps did? Im sorry but this is factually wrong and doesnt justify the lack of investigations its a petty excuse that doesnt actually solve any problem and would not convince any sane person. The are only 2 reason for the lack of investigations:
1:they were lazy and didnt like trump so they just ignored half of the voters
2:there was fraud and they were trying to cover it
1 us more possible but cant judge people who belive 2
| Investigations are never fruitless and they always help when deciding if there was or was not fraud especially when around 50% of the voters belive there was.
Hearing the voices of such huge ammount of people is democracy, telling them to shut up and that this has been the most secure election with no proof of it being is not democracy.
Its either malice or extreme incompetence, no wonder people were angry and went to protest with some rioting, they got heard in 2016 but 2020?
| in january we also had a flyrru of idiots debating toxic yank politics in a cyberpunk barmaid imageboard lookalike.
| Having lived through 8 presidential election cycles, I always here voter fraud claims when Dems win. Maybe voter fraud is true, maybe not, but it's played out whining at this point. I would believe it if I didn't hear about it every fucking time.
| I just hate how fast the months are passing
| that face didn't work so well did it let's just switch to :<
| >>735539
1: Yeah, just close your eyes before reality in which fascists gain more and more interpretative sovereignty. You'll end up being a fascist or being locked by fascists after everyone else who opposed them already vanished because you mistook them for the bigger or real threat.
2. Big corps are the usual result in capitalism. Any kind of regulation (including antitrust law) was marked as evil socialist/communist blasphemy by dominating neoliberal (=right-winged) politics.
| >>735543
Fascism is if fighting ignorance, stupidity and fake news with knowledge, arguments and facts is seen as censorship.
| >>736018 nah you are just delusioned about reality and fell for too much propaganda, the real enemy here is the corruption and the greed that plagues the government, the midia and the elites, they love people like you who eat up the idea that facists are the half of the common people and a party.
The game stop thing just proved how the elites are doing a mass collab to screw the people and get money their first reqction was calling it a facist attack, its all bullshit man.
| >>736019 the fellow people are not the enemy, they just wanna make you belive that, they want people like YOU, who are willing to let more tyranical mesures to protect "democracy" from "facist", didnt you learn anything from all the propaganda in the cold war, the WW2, 9/11 and more? Its all propaganda to justtify shit that shouldnt be done
| >>736021
The whole economical system is built on the assumption that it's for everyone best if things are managed by the most greedy people. It's inherently corrupt. Capitalism as it is, is an invitation for sociopaths to rule. Centralizing power and control over resources is more efficient than decentralization. Power corrupts, total power corrupts total.
It's not an accident by only some "bad" people that need to be separated from the good. It's how it is by design.
| They used communism x capitalism in the cold war, germany was the jews and the arians in WW2, they used 9/11 to justify invading and interfering in the east, and now its facist x democracy.
| >>736024 you blame capitalism but tell me one system that BY NO POSSIBILITIES can be taken over by greedy people? Tell me JUST ONE I dare you, come up with something better that can not be taken over by some greedy elites with power.
The real enemy of the people is not capitalism, communism or facism, its people greedy and power.
| >>736023
Fascists are real. The delusion you describe is caused in the most harmful way by fascist propaganda. It separates people based on entirely arbitrary properties - with no reason. Just self-reproducing stereotypes amplified in digital echo-chambers with stochastic parrots become conspiracy theories that spread like viruses.
| (((fascism))), lmao
| >>736025
The definition of "jews" and "arians" by nazi propaganda didn't make any sense. They were historically, ethnologically and biologically bullcrap.
- Actual "jews" are either an ethnicity or people who believe in judaism
- There is no superior or inferior ethnicity. They are all humans of equal quality.
- actual arians are a ethnical/linguistical group majorly in persia (guess where the name "iran" comes from)
| >>736027 and who is behind it then? Who is the cause of this? Why are there so many "facists" out there? Who is deciding who are and are not the facists?
Its all identity politics bullshilt that lumps half of the people as nazis because they dont agree with some arbritrary set of rules, isnt it weird that almost half of a country and pieces of many other countries can be branded as facists? Dont you see how crazy and overblowed is this shit?
| >>736032 the same way that the modern definition of facism became a broad, relativistic, biased and senseless.
| >>736026
Well, it's not like communism and capitalism aren't basically about how to manage economical power...
Fascism is just bullcrap to maintain the status quo.
| >>736034
There is no "modern" definition. There is ONE antifascist Definition and there are many arbitrary and partially contradictory fascists definitions.
| >>736035
The failed communist regimes often had fascist characteristics. While it wasn't the cause for their failing, it was the most important expression of their failure.
| >>736035 implying the status quo is facist. Dude what you trying to say? Are facist are growing in power? Or society was always facist? It cant be both at the same time.
Also answer the questions at >>736033 these are really important.
| >>736033
There massive qualitative differences in identity politics:
- White supremacy: made up and arbitrary
- Jewish conspiracy: made up and arbitrary
- opression of women reality most of the time in history and still in most parts of the world
- racial discrimination against PoC -> reality for at least most of the time in the last 4-5 centuries
| >>736038
The status quo is about who is in power. In a monarchy the status quo is the monarch being in power. In capitalism the capitalist class is in power. In a failed "communist" dictatorship the party/prime leader is in power. Fascism is a set of methods and ideas to keep the status quo especially during a situation of crisis that eventually could make people question the status quo.
| Fascism is characterized by:
- leader cult
- surveillance, censorship, propaganda
- mass mobilization
- conspiracy theories
- anti-communism
- anti-(societal)liberalism
It very well but not necessarily or exclusively is compatible or occurs with with:
- imperialism
- militarism
- anti-semitism
- nationalism
- racism (usually white supremacism)
- sexism (usually patriarchism)
- religious fundamentalism
| >>736043 if the status quo is facist than why are so many people in the antifacist side saying that society needs to return to normal, that we need to put things back where they were before the facist started rising?
Id doesnt make sense and Im still wondering about the things in the first paragraph at >>736033
| This anti facist thing is just segregational bullshit that they are using to distract the people from the real problem, CORRUPTION, there are bad people out there not every person on both the elites and hte common people are not good But there ammount of bad people is not as big as it seems, actual facism is not as big as it seems, the problem of the world is corrution and propaganda, not the broad modern "facism" that has few things to do with the original definition
| >>736046
fascism isn't the status quo. read
>>736043
>why are so many people in the antifacist side saying that society needs to return to normal
- Because not everyone who pretends to be an antifascist is one.
- Because antifascists are heterogeneous, including liberal and social romantics who don't understand the role fascism plays in the capitalist system for the capitalist class. Some believe capitalism can be tamed, reformed, democratized or cleaned.
| >>736047
And again: corruption isn't the real problem. It's just a symptom of a much deeper, systematical problem. This is what fascists and partially also antifascists deny and/or don't understand and distract people from.
| >>736047
>actual facism is not as big as it seems
You're wrong here. In most parts of the world fascistic tendencies are on the rise or even already in power.
| >>736050 so now the people who want to go back to how things were are just grifters and fake antifacists? Meaning that even more people are getting labled as facists? Dude look at how derranged and biased that mindset it!! Everyone thqt disagrees with you is on the side of the facists, thats NOT how things work.
| >>736053 so facism is older than corruption? Than greed? Than gluttony? Than the bloated ego? Facism is the origing of all evil in society and humanity? People fust do bad stuff because facism?
History show that things like, GREED, big EGO and poor short term decisions are what cause corruption and centralisation of power to a small group, even since the tribal eras of humanity, thats the origin of corruption, but you wanna blame all that onto "facism" thats bogus!
And answer >>736033
| >>736054
>so now the people who want to go back to how things were are just grifters and fake antifacists?
Generally: It depends on what they believe how things were. But usually backwarded thinking IS a typical fascist thing. Also you misunderstand me: Fascism/anti-fascism is not a black and white thing. There are many shades of gray on both sides.
| >>736053 If you brand everything you disagree as facist, dont be suprised that most people support facism, re think your ideals man, its not healthy.
| >>736055
Fascism isn't the origin of anything. It's just the end of something. A very bad end.
>and who is behind it then? Who is the cause of this? Why are there so many "facists" out there? Who is deciding who are and are not the facists?
It's not "who" but "what". Fascism is not a single homogenous conspiracy. There are logical causes that lead to fascism. I already explained.
| >>736057
That's not what I did. It's only what you want to understand and/or to make me look like.
| >>736057
There are actual fascists, who believe that fascist stuff is great stuff. They are heterogeneous and even antagonizing each other (e.g. different nationalists and/or religious fundamentalists)
Then there are nominal members, who usually are the majority.
And then there are those who don't agree with fascist stuff, but play down/don't see the menace it causes.
And then there are antifascists who don't understand the root problem and have no concepts beyond antifascism.
| >>736059 is tho? Why are are all the things you complained and called facist either overblown problems or shit that happens independent of facism.
Like, do you even know what is facism, its seems like people lile you just call whatever that is seen as wrong facist or at least try to correlate it to facism. Go study the history of italy,germany etc. Facism is not what you think it is.
| I see only the first two groups as fascists. But I even differentiate within the nominal members if they are fascists out of opportunity/convenience or because they just had no chance to know it better.
| >>736060 why does everything revolve around facism in your head? Its like you are mistaking the word "bad" with "facism" and you try to separate and lable people in facist, facist apologists and anti facists
Thats such a crude, naive and short sighted way to see the world
| >>736062 see you just decide who is and isnt facist.
Facist are only the people who dont fit your ideological bubble of what is best for the world. Thats an echo chamber and you clearly fell for deep into it
| >>736063
Learn set theory. Fascism is a subset of bad. Not every bad thing is a fascist thing. But every fascist thing is a bad thing.
| >>736069 https://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-25-4-mussolini-and-the-rise-of-fascism.html#:~:text=Fascism%20arose%20in%20Europe%20after,to%20describe%20his%20political%20movement.
This is facism, centralised power, state with a lot of control over economy, capitalism and the people.
Your definition is just broad politicised bullshit that tries to fit as much people you disagree with.
| And read the whole article before replying
| >>736068
Self-centered? Well that's your interpretation/opinion. But it doesn't matter.
Bullshit? It's no bullshit. I share definition of fascism which is pretty common sense scientifically. Fascists definitions of fascism don't matter since fascists just write anti- or pseudo-scientific esoterical mumbo-jumbo: Yesterday fascism was basically capitalism, tomorrow it's like communism. And suddendly it's about jews and arians or gods will.
| I read Drumpf’s tweets on twitter
He lives rent free in my head
I live for the moments
When he tweets at 3 a.m.
He makes me so damn mad
Orange man bad
| In the government school system
They’ve trained us how to think
We’ve been properly programmed
And some of us are still in sync
I’m smart ‘cause I’m a college grad
They’ve told me orange man bad
| I believe the women
I wear the pussy hat
When I see a Trumpster
I knock off their MAGA cap
I’m hopin’ this is all just a fad
‘Cause orange man bad
| I get my news from talk shows
I hear the people clap
When I watch Jimmy Kimmel
He always makes me laugh
He cheers me up when I am sad
He knows that orange man bad
| I worship famous people
They tell me how to vote
And when one disappoints me
I wanna punch ‘em in the throat
They’re no longer my comrade
‘Cause orange man bad
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=j2TKoxQTdvI
| I am a resister
Impeach 45
And if we lose this next election
I’ll scream at the sky
But I think our blue wave’s ironclad
‘Cause orange man bad
| Orange man bad
Orange man bad
Orange man bad
| Orange man bad
Orange man bad
Orange man bad
| Orange man bad
Orange man bad
Orange man bad
| yanks
| >>736081 oh the official, more credible and scientific article about facism is wrong, while your broad, based on what ever the hell your sources are(you never presented any) is the better, more accurate and correct definition and history of facism?
YOU ARE A PSEUDO INTELLECTUAL SCIENCE DENNIER just like the facists you like lable.
| Hey, both of you, the person and the effeminate progressivist schizo antifaggot:
Just forget about it, guys. Go do something else.
| >>736090 its not like it is worth to reply anymore that pseudo intellectual bullshit at>>736081 that came right after>>736074 just shows the type of person Im dealing with.
| >>736089
>the official, more credible and scientific article about facism is wrong
It's neither official, nor scientifc. It's written with the clear intention to distort the defintion of fascism with manipulative statements.
Constitutional Rights Foundation
Civics-renewal-networks
Annenberg Public Policy Center
Annenberg Foundation
billion dollar heavy "Philanthropes"
an anticommunist neocon/neolib thought-factory wants to explain fascism.
I'm laughing my ass of...
| I'm a fascist
| >>736093 sciece dennier cant accept the truth and only wants to hear from their own pseudo scientific echochamber.
Sems like Your definition of facist lmao.
You talk as if thats the only article, so many articles, history books and even the facist manifesto will agree with the one I showed, you just cant take it man, go home, we dont need antifacists anymore.
| yeah... anyways here's some J-POP from Mussolini's granddaughter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMDFFjNZfVA
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MyyBfUd_4
| Just want to point out that the only definition of fascism >>118de2 has given is>>736019
This definition
1. does not include any discussion of means
2. defines fascism with relation to absolute truth (which they also seem to have decided they are arbiter of, evidenced by >>736081 )
3. is hostile and based on the relation of presumed fascism to >>118de2
And before anyone quotes >>736045 , neither characteristics nor correlated beliefs are the core of a definition
| Rather than using those observations to call >>118de2 wrong, I'm just going to say that I don't trust any system or person that uses that definition due to those three problems. There is too much personal involvement of the definer in the definition, which means there's really more unstated definition. Because of that, I think it would be better to respond to this argument until a better definition is agreed upon as nobody can be clear on what fascism is
| Also, this person implies fighting ignorance is good. However, they also were very quick to say "this is wrong" with no attempt to correct this ignorance. I think they have confused fighting against something with aims to fix it with fighting people on the internet with the aim of dismissal. This isn't really an argument against their argument, I just think it's unfortunate because that's the easy way out.
| I myself dont disagree that facism is bad, its just that >>118de2 doesnt know what facism is or doesnt have a clear understanting of it and that makes him act under mindsets that can be very weird and dangerous if taken to an extreme
| >>736120 I think that I'm willing to give>>118de2 the benefit of the doubt and assume that they probably have a better definition (whether they know how to articulate that or not). The problem not about whether they're wrong or right, it's about if they're willing to listen or educate instead of dismiss and deny. The problem that leads to these blowout arguments on this board is that people come here with the assumption that everyone else is stupid, angry, and unfixable.
| To have a good faith discussion you need to always be giving the other participant respect. That means you understand that they can make mistakes, they can fix those mistakes, and that they are not mistaken out of anything but lack of education or deep thought on the matter. You also have to understand that you want them to have that same understanding. That respect has to be established before either person can voice a disagreement otherwise it turns into "you're wrong! no you!"
| amazing id change timing
tl;dr: if either of you want to change the others' mind, you have to realize that the other person's failure to understand what you think is the matter is probably because you aren't listening or asking the questions you need to understand. fixing that should start with a better definition of fascism due to the reasons I stated before.
| the fag's ideas are the product of an attempt at ideological assassination of fascism by muddying it with a plethora of bullshit definitions and beliefs.
you can compare it to character assassination, but more towards something like what the kikes did to christianity, civil rights movements, general politics (like in the US) etc.
the result is, for example, that when i say that i am a fascist, or even agree with it, people refer to the corrupted idea they have of it and lash out.
| even then my blood is not made of fascismium. the comparison with christianity is interesting because we all know how that turned out, catholic, protestant, orthodox, mormon, LDS, roman catholic, and all the crap that follows.
maybe it was just too big to remain a singular movement, but the point is that it's quite diverse, and in contrast to that understanding, fash-bashers don't seem to compute the same thing for fascism and just put it all in the same box.
| NSDAP indoctrination tier techniques, by the way. Hitler said it himself: "make it appear as if your entire opposition is just one group of people".
| >>736235
Hitler was more of a man than most of the people that mindlessly talk crap about him will ever be
| But I also cant expect everyone to be a mega popular person that attempted to build an dictatorship with lots of charism, propaganda and blood ON PORPOUSE
| >>736242
i'll take from Hitler what is inspiring and try to work on myself following the idea that propaganda made him out to be.
it's a selective form of looking up to a significant person.
i won't be stupid enough to end up in worship, tho, let's not snort a chalk mine. it's pretty clear he messed stuff up and lost the war for example
| >>736024
>power corrupts, total power corrupts total
>centralization good
Idk why the other gurl engaged this guy for so long after that.
| >>736114
>2. defines fascism with relation to absolute truth
Except that's not what he did. Utilizing fact-based evidence, arguments and knowledge to dispute ignorance and lies is seen as censorship by fascism because that's how fascism works. It has nothing to do with "absolute truth".
| >>736118
> Also, this person implies fighting ignorance is good. However, they also were very quick to say "this is wrong" with no attempt to correct this ignorance.
This is what you yourself have been doing most of the thread though...
At least practice what you preach.
| >>60a59b >>736115
If you do not understand what fascism is at least do the bare minimum of reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism before you single-handely decide that people should stop responding to him.
He's obviously very well-read on the subject and his view on fascism correlates with the already established views. I don't see what the problem is or why ceasing to respond to him wouldn't lead to anything but a path towards willful ignorance.
| >>60a59b >>736115
Did you just waltz into this thread to dictate the debate and decide who people should and shouldn't talk to? You haven't even taken part in the discussion. Why the fuck are you even here?
What kind of fantasy world do you live in?
| >>736500 the problem is not that I don't have a definiton of fascism that I understand, the problem is that the two arguers did not have a definition of fascism that both understood equally. I don't think either should respond until that's cleared up, because any other responses are going to be based on misunderstanding of each other and thus lead to more argument. I don't think the halting of replies should be permanent as it seems you have assumed.
| >>736533 I did. I'm open to being convinced that this was a mistake, although I think that would shit this thread up even more.
| >(((debate)))
| In more important news, Mr. Peanut is back.
This thread is permanently archived
| I think it was a bit more wild compared to the past few months which were kinda boring.
Here's a couple of remarkable things I could think of that happened this month;
>capitol raid
>reddit causes a short squeeze
>fallout the frontier shitstorm
There's a lot more but these were the first things that came across my mind. Thoughts about this month overall?