This thread is permanently archived
Is anyone excited for President Biden's government-sponored bully hunters?
| Get a load of this butthurt qanon
| Well most people voted for biden more because he wasnt trump so not a lot of people are really that excited about BIDEN BEING PRESIDENT!!
| >>f975fa if being concerned about rights described by the first amendment to the U.S. constitution is wrong then I don't want to be right.
https://www.wlvt.org/blogs/montgomery/presidentelect-joe-biden-to-create-cyber-task-force-to-combat-online-harassment/
>inb4 someone says I'm a Trump supporter
| Online harassments aren't a good thing. It *never* contributes to the quality of online debates in any form.
Basically, the only people who complain are the ones the new rules apply to.
| >>732337 what is considered harassement? Its super vage, especially nowadays, its a huge problem to make things this vague punishble
| Most people who are angry at it are not harassers, they are mostly people that dont want to give government that much power
| i agree with the AGAINST side. as a society we have moved from blood wars to knowledge wars. our own minds have become a battlefield for the warring states of the world.
>>732337
and the only people that disagreed with the communist party of lenin and their tortures and purges were greedy, egotistical money-hungry kulaks that were the scourge of nations and had to be eliminated.
as i said, the only difference here is that the repression is bloodless.
| >>732380 bloodless but you will be banned on all social midia, any digital banks(lets be real, the paypal monopoly) will refuse to serve you, your boss at the plce you work will fire you for commiting a "hate crime", this will tarnish your reputation on all places, this will put you in a state of depression that will either make you commit suicide or start commiting crimes to survive which will eventualy kill you :D
| Its cancel culture government edition
Even less democracy(not like cancel culture had much) and gives more power to elites
| >>732197
I don't think that spreading lies and hate based on conspiracy theories combined with calls for action is what the socialist george orwell tried to defend in his book 1984 - which was about stalinism in the first place.
It's rather trumpism and the "alt right" media empire who massively play the propaganda keyboard in a 1984 way - with much less "brave new world" accents than liberals.
I also suspect you confuse "wrongthinking" with "non-thinking".
| >>732426 when did OP even brought up stalin?
Also you are just saying that this is somehow Trumps work, de dude is out already.
It is wrongthinking, you just dehumanised a political group so much that you cant understand their points, they think too you know?
People like you are the reason things are gettin so radicalized!
| >>732426
and that's the mindset that censorship has
we're right, you're wrong, let's censor you because what you say is bad
| >>732367
It's not vague at all. If it's considered harrasment outside of the Internet then you shouldn't get leniency because you do it in front of a computer. We already have laws against harrassing each other. The only thing this will change is catching more people who are already breaking the law.
Harrassing people is not a first amendent right so it doesn't trample on your right to free speech.
| >>732452 harassement is really vague on the on the internet, say there is a meme of a person going viral, how do deal with it, technically every person who shared and liked the meme helped in the harassement.
And it doesnt help that so many people use the word harassment for being called stupid on discord.
We need a set of internet laws because its a different medium that does not apply to the same standarts as real life
| >>732429
>when did OP even brought up stalin?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrongthink
>With its Orwellian roots, use of the word implies that freedom of opinion is being suppressed.
"orwellian" refers to the most popular works of gerorge orwell, "1984" and "animal farm", which were a stalinism parody/warning.
Do your homework!
| New/alt right idiots believe that even moderate liberals like Biden are all communists and that all communists are also stalinists.
| According to them everything Biden says and does is deeply rooted in socialism and the far-right is the only opposition to the massive oppression they imagine. Those people have totally lost their relation to reality.
| >>732471 but why the whole rant about stalin tho? That just misses the point
>>732472 >>732473 alt left idiots belive that even modderate conservatives are all facists and and that all facists have ties with nazism
According to them everything Trump says and does is deeply rooted in facism and the far left is the only opposition to the massive oppression they imagine. Those people tottaly lost their relation to reality.
See how its just them taking sides and being idiots? Chill
| People who dehumanize a political side wont be able to see things fpr what they are, they will just indulge in their shallow "justice" and create rules to oppress those who disagree.
These people are what cause devision and radicalization, they are useful idiots to any person trying to get power since all they have to do is pander tp that group.
You are as much of a sheep to left as those people are to the right. Think for whats best not for whats in your ideology!
| >>732478
While reality even isn't like that at all this portrayal would still be closer to reality than the other way around.
| >>732479
Then why ideologically framing the topic with words like "wrongthinking" in the first place?
| >>732478
I bet you wish now there would be some kind of online police that persecutes people for their "wrong-thinking"...
| >>732541 Tbh, BOTH ARE CORRECT!! There are griffters, people with inflamatory behaviour, extremists, rioters, and people trying to get power on both sides. Both sides are bending rules and acting like dictators to opress the other, the difference being that on side has a bit more control over mainstream which is the left but that doesnt matter as both sides have lost credibility
| >>732544 OP probably didnt even knew the word had ties to stalin and just used it as its literal meaning wrongthinking=people who are thinking in the wrong way!!
>>732543 they were probably joking in an attempt to show how stupid this whole mess is.
What you are defending is a blatant succesful attemp of the government to just look at a person's tweet and deem anything they feel like as a hate crime so that they can silence them, censorship at its finest.
| The people who belive giving that much control to government and big tech companies just so they can silence the "facists", the "trumpsters" and the "neo-nazis" are either naive and ignorant of the possibilities or they are cowards who cant argue against said facists and so decided to give a higher power the control out of spite.
Censorship is not good for neither side cuz all you have to do is put a dictator on power and they will abuse it.
| >>732557
yes
the only way we can stop fascism is if we control opinions and regulate what people are able and allowed to say.
| >>732549
And iron shoe theory for the 99st time. No the right and the left aren't both equally evil/bad/harmful. Generally not in theory and currently not in practice (neither qualitative nor quantitative).
| >>732550
The interesting question now is if "wrongthinking" means actual false information or only allegedly ones to you?
And "the government" we talk about isn't a totalitarian dictatorship. It's based on democratically institutions with democratically legitimized representatives that are all bound to a constitution.
| >>732565
This is the intention of horseshoe theory. The whole strategy of the right in the last years was about shifting the public discourse to the right. And it was massively successful. This is why million of people in the USA consider joe biden now as communist while they see trump as moderate conservative or even peoples revolutionary savior.
| >>732559 ok sis ;)
>>732561 in a perfect world I would agree IN THE REAL WORLD people have a lot of trouble when identifying properly what is racist, facist, mysogenist, antisemitist, biased, satire, right wing, left wing, extremist, peaceful protest, a riot and ideals.
If you cant debate something then you cant argue nor question it, censorship is that, the absence of exchange with the ruling of a relative truth of the choosing of whoever is in power.
| >>732564 biased, radicalized propaganda that is preached on both sides to make people think fellow citizens arw their enemy, while elites just gain power over culture, information, make lawas to favor them and install systems to opress people under the pretence of either what is best or to censor the ones who arw against their immense power.
| >>732568 all they have to do to break the constitution is not follow it and make sure the people are too distracted fighting each other to notice it.
>>732572 its not just the right, if you look at what both sides talk about and how they act, you will see that they are the same thing but shifted to blame eachother.
You are defending censorship, an authoritharian method of ruling over information and truth.
| >>732561
>the only way we can stop fascism is if we control opinions and regulate what people are able and allowed to say.
The problem is: Who is "we"? Facebook? Twitter? Joe Biden? They will support or even ally with fascists as soon the status quo is seriously questioned. They're only antifascists out of opportunism, because fascists movements currently are seen as a more powerful and harmful threat to profit. But this can and will change fast, as the left stops douching around.
| >>732579 thats how the cycle goes, people will just say whaever makes them feel more secure while not thinking what is best. And I get it, it was sarcasm
| >>732576
The problem is that what you describes affects the right entirely while it affects the left only partly.
There is no real class struggle or fight against the actual elites from the right.
| >>732587
"the left" is not homogenous. There are many different currencies within the left that are as harmful as the right. But the radical right is generally harmful. There is absolutely nothing positive about them. They don't even serve as a bad example, because bad examples would imply there were be any useful approaches/ideas within their (also heterogenous) thought world.
| >>732591 people on the right say the same shit!!!!!
I've heard stuff like "those libtards will sink the country! Some of us might be a confused butnot on the same level as those democraps". YOU ARE BIASED.
| >>732593 you are biased, I hear the same thing from the right, they call themselves patriots yet some of them are say shit that would totally break the rights of the people.
Your side is not special, its just another political agenda trying to get control.
| >>732599 this is why you can do the experiments yourself, science can be tested, researched and proved with tangible results, gravity is real because we can see, calculate and exploit it.
I built a cataput for a science project, I made a solar powerd water heater with pvc tubes, I made paper airplanes and more, you can prove science!
Unlike political agendas that are near unflexible, rooted in ideals and expected to not be questioned or researched in depth.
| And to be honest, Yes science is authoritharian, the laws of physics are what keep us limited to many things, the oppress out imaginations and bind us to what we percive as real, but with science we can exploit said laws and make the impossibke possible.
| >>732602
Well, trying to get in control is all what politics is about. But to me it matters what the goals AND methods are. There are bad methods on both sides, yes. But I don't see any good goals on the right. There is no right-winged society ideal I share, because they all rely on creating exclusivity.
| >>732606
Well, the capital volume 1-3 are an unmatched approach to analyze political economy with scientific methods.
At least they are much more scientific than what right-winged theorists wrote. Their writings is all about supernatural powers, magic, conspiracies, etc.
Nevertheless there are some issues with science: It isn't only limited by our biological and technological capacities, it can also be corrupted by society/politics.
| >>732609 and excluding as whole aspect of the political spectrum by dehumanizing their belivers, attri uting malice to all their actions and refusing to see their perspective while not analysing any of their ideals to see if there is something good to take while diminishing the failiures of your own side and approving actions that harm the other isnt creating exclusivity?
So much for the side that preaches for equality, peace and mutual understanding
| people you disagree with: censorship is bad. let's not do that.
idiots: yeah censorship is- WAIIIIT! THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE I DISAGREE WITH!!!
| >>732611 read the thing again, I said that while yes reality does opress and limits us, we can exploit its laws and rules to make amazing things, this isnt fantasy it is called building
| >>732612 shut UP! There were leftists making rituals and using astrology to proove trump was going to loose the election.
ANYTHING CAN BE CORRUPTED BY SOCIETY AND POLITICS! Look at shit like gamer gate, the comic book industry, the shit that happens to anime now that it is becoming popularised. If they can corrupt culture they can corrupt anything
| SAVE CULTURE
| >>732615
Ok, I think I can agree here. But I also see an issue with that circumstance: (how) should we stop people from using this method for destructive behavior? And don't try telling me this isn't a thing.
| >>732618
Learn set theory. There are silly currencies within the left. But there are no smart currencies within the right.
| >>732617 YOU! You kept saying how everyhing the left belives is evil how all their actions promote segregation, you called them non-thinkers.
You see the right very much as less than human, its all over your speech.
| >>732620 guess what? There is no stopping, yet I'm amazed by how many people refuse to belive that there are certai chaotic aspects in reality that we cant control without causing major harm to the balance of things.
Free speech above censorship even if you disagree with someones opinion, if you belive you are right, you have the freedom to test and explain why? Dont be a coward who has to make people listen trough fear
| >>732622
When I write "the left" or "the right" it doesn't refer to the people but to their thought worlds. I'm convinced that people are able to overcome their thought errors. That's a difference to important parts of the right who see no other option but the physical annihilation of their political enemies, who often don't even have a possibility to escape this portrayal.
| >>732621 thats very ignorant, biased, dehumanizing and segregative way of thinking.
In 93 the right:video games are the devil, the contain demons
In 2015: video games are tools from white men to make racist, mysogenist fantasies of power.
American health minster and the left: we need to look down even if people are not dying, belive in science!
World Health Organization: lockdowns are extreme, last case mesures with hige consequences
Cult like behaviours are on both sides
| Oof I meant world health organization and the right
| >>732625
But don't you see the contradictions there? Free speech also offers people to speak against free speech. Unlimited freedom also allows people to limit other peoples freedoms. Freedom doesn't work the way you want it to work.
| >>732628
Your video game example clearly shows inconsistencies. While exactly those parts of the right still believe in video games being satanist there also are rightists that complain about videogames that try not to serve old patterns as "liberal/socialist" propaganda.
Also left criticisim on video games isn't on videogames generally but about problematic tropes some important titles serve.
| >>732627 the riots and autonomous zones in 2020 that caused millions of damage in some cities and had deaths, looting, arson of private busineses, death to all nazis were chalked up as mostly peaceful protest agaisnt racism and facism
The capitol riot that only had the ocupation of the buildings, s possible bomb threath and 4 deaths were branded as white supremacist terrorists trying to throw a coup.
In the end, BOTH ARE TERRORISTS TRYING to get power.
| >>732630 I said freedom of speech not total fredom of speech, read>>732633 this is why we cant give too much control over speech to big tech companies, the midia and the government, they will use bias and hipocrisy to get control and let whatever favors them pass
| >>732635
And which instance should regulate those institutions? Wouldn't it need an institution as powerful as the others? Who is going to control this institution?
| well i say total freedom of speech!
| >>732632 the left is the main perpetrator of cancel culture which are just political witch hunts.
The left has their politics held on the same standart as the right holds religion, in the end it is all bullshit that they let defien themselves and live under.
The same way trumpters see trump as a good, you see people calling biden the saviour of the trump nazi facisttic dictatorship.
| >>732633
Empirically there is a higher chance for me to get murdered by right-winged idiots than by antifascist rioters or even looters. I can pretend to agree to left extremists, I can give looters all my property. But there are many things I can't change the right blames me for. I can't change the color of my skin, I can't change the size of my nose, my ancestry or random things that even don't exist, but they believe in.
| >>732636 the internet was fine before they started regulating everything AS MUCH AS they do now, the problem is that private companies took sides, the midia took sides and the government was already divied and all it needed was to divide the people so it could start gaining power.
They should research and write well defined laws and limitations for what is censorshit and what is freedom of speech, the definitions we have now are clearly outdated
| >>732639 the fact that you willing to give your property and give up on your ideals means that you are just a steping stone to the left, if you choice of politicla ideals is based on the "least worst" then this conversation is settled, you are just a conformist who doesnt have an opinion of your own and goes with whatver benefits you. Good luck out there
| >>732639
empirically as a European i am much more likely to get blown up by a muzzie than a normal person. thus we should kick them out
| >>732642
- Most islamist terrorists in europe were europeans
- only a tiny minority of muslims in europe are islamists.
- most victims of islamist terrorism world wide are muslims
- the history islamist terrorism is tied to european interventionism
And yes, Islamism is one of many faces of fascism.
| >>732641
Well, I haven't much property anyways. Besides that, it amuses me how you tried to explain me how I have "the wrong ideals" and now start to blame me for having no ideals at all. Could you finally decide?
Biden is with no doubt the least worst alternative to trump, but this rather makes me a stepping stone to a continuation of neoliberal politics, which is no problem since it's determined to fail anyways.
| >>732676
A muslim is either someone who follows mohammads lores or whose parents are/were muslims. Most muslims were and still are only muslims for the second reason, because mohammads lores are nothing more but a mashup of abrahamitic monotheism and alot of made up contradicting arbitrary bullshit with additionally contradicting interpretations depending on what pseudo-intelectual clerical and monarchistic political elites need.
| so the first reading of a muslim doesn't even exist. It's not clear what mohammads lores really are. It's enough text to cherry pick what you want to believe to justify being an asshole. Just like other cultures fascists do.
| >>732677 you really have no standarts, you are just twisting things at this point, you dont want to admit how shallow your ideals are even if you give clear hints that its all shallow, you say that the left has bad things, but refuses to say you are agaisnt it, you said censorship is bad but you also say that censorship is better than freedom of speech, you say that that a lot of things have bad aspects BUT YOU DONT DO ANYHING AGAINST IT!
| You just go by whatever makes you feel better, what ever makes it easier, you lack conviction, trust, confidence and standarts, too much hipocrisy and selfishness.
>>732688 you just brand anything you dislike as facist yet you wanna complain about the right blaming everything on communists. Are you gonna say that the at least the left isnt that bad? That they at least arent facist?
Get a look at yourself, its shameful.
| >>732702 and notice how much they look down on religion, Im not religious myself but respect is important
| >>732467
>say there is a meme of a person going viral ... technically every person who shared and liked the meme helped in the harassement.
Sharing and liking memes isn't illegal so you have nothing to fear in that regard. Just like engaging in rumour spreading isn't illegal. You're just fearful for something you do not understand.
| cont..
If you're the one who started the rumour on the other hand, and if you did so with mischievous intent, it might be slander and therefor you're breaking the law. It doesn't matter if you do this AFK or online. The crime is the same.
This has *nothing* to do with curbing free speech.
| >>732820 how can you prove intent? Especially on the internet, where there is not tone reading, lack of context, where people might just be in a bad mode irl and so the type more aggressivly but dont actually mean it, say what you want but its definetly diferent on the internet because you can not prove intent
| Wow people really want to continue this for some reason
| Religion is opium to the people!
| >>732702
Oh I forgot: In feudal times people also became christians if the local leader(s) decided so.
| >>732871 and you can literaly say you dont belive in god and leave when you ghrow older.
>>732872 why should I, we are on the internet, also where did all the attitude came from?
>>732873 the left right pet politician rage bait isnt?
>>732875 and we are in 2021 where you can just leave church and never come back.
| >>732826
Again, you're just fearful for something you do not understand. Typing aggressively is not illegal and neither is speaking aggresively. Harrasing people on the other hand is very illegal.
| >>732927 do you know how often people say shit like "Just kill yourself lmaoooo" or say terrible stuff out there just for the heck of it because they are on the internet? People behave differently on the internet, we first need rules and laws specific for the internet, then we make institutions to police it, this is going to cause unecessary harm than good and it gives power to an institution that already has a lot of power and influence wich might be used to opress the people
| keep your shitclamps off our internet, we'll call each other niggers as many times as we fucking want
| >>732620
There are two ways of stopping someone from doing something. You make it a physical possibility, or you convince them not to with polite discussion.
To stop >>cf04d9 from calling us niggers, you could kill them, destroy their computers, or jail them. Or, you could try to use your empathy and logic and convince them otherwise.
| Neither way is "the right way" or "the good way". But if you use physical force of any kind to prevent censorship, you are using the same technique.
You could make the argument that there is a line between acceptable and unacceptable actions and use force only on the unacceptable ones. But there is also no correct place for that line, it's just opinion. Everyone will put that line in a different spot.
| I think the reason that people argue that "the left is worse!" or "the right is worse!" or even that they're equal in America is because neither side wants to use anything but violence. Another problem is that neither is a person, and it's only people that can convince each other.
So to conclude, the way to stop people from being fascist, being destructive, or being violent is one at a time.
| I say we just nuke the normienet. Would solve a lot of issues.
| Back anarchynet yay
| >>733003
>is because neither side wants to use anything but violence.
What kind of dream world are you living in? I can assure you that every seat uses dialogue to govern their states and not violence like you claim they do.
| >>732930
>do you know how often people say shit like "Just kill yourself lmaoooo"
This is still not harrassment. It's juvenile and should lead to consequenses, sure, but it's not harrassment and won't be targeted by this new task force.
>or say terrible stuff out there just for the heck of it
People who do this *should* face the consequenses for their actions. If you harrass someone off or on the street you need to be convicted.
| >>732930
Answer me, why do you have such strong opinions when you clearly do not even understand the topic?
People who engage in criminal and destructive behaviour shouldn't get off scot-free. The reason they have been in this casae is because current police forces aren't adequately equipped to handle such cases. Now there's a fix for that.
It's not like these people are anynomous or anything. It's incredible easy to track someone online.
| >>7e1991 censorship defenders dont understand how government abuses power and doesnt provide enough transparency to make the people trust them.
Censorship is a type of violence, riots are violence, refusal to entertein and discuss eachothers ideas and ideals is not violence but when these are left neglected the only option left is violence.
Pen is only mightier than the sword if both parties feel like hearing eachother out
| In the pursuit of truth you have to risk being offensive.
The most important discussions we should have are about very sensitive topics that can cause offense to some.
If you start censoring on the base of "harassment" and "offense" you rob society from those important discussions.
Social media helped radicalise people so much that now hearing a different opinion is almost considered harassment.
If you don't engage with opposing views, your ability to think critically will rot
| all people defending this shit should be bully-hunted
"...and then they came for me..."
| >>733625
Arresting harrassers isn't censorship.
Freedom of speech doesn't give you the freedom to harass.
Unless you're harrassing people online then you have nothing to fear.
| >>733768 but its stupid to arrest people for harresment when the nowadays definition is so broad a vague like>>733705
| >>733768 i find your defence of hate speech laws extremely offensive, and i believe that that constitutes harassment so you should be jailed
| niggers, as always
| "The cyber task force will confront issues like revenge porn, deepfake videos, and online threads that lead to offline acts of aggression, including mass shootings and stalking."
I wish you idiots could read.
This thread is permanently archived
| 'Cause I certainly am not.
Creating an actual online police that can potentially arrest you for wrongthink is a lot worse than anything Trump made while in office. Twitter mobs are bad enough already; raising the stakes even more is only going to kill online discourse entirely