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Save me from Spain, I'm scared
| Sorry to hear OP. Hope you can escape soon.
| Spain is such a retarded place. Get out OP you're a Eurofag you can leave
| I was dealing with similar shit in Poland OP. Everything appears to be crumbling down. If you speak English well then go to some Ireland or Scotland like me.
| OP is a far righter in case you were wondering what's that blabbering about the dictature and empty hospitals.
They are basically brainwashed by our two right wing parties who scream about communism and terrorism and generic Facebook denial stuff since they lost credibility and voters
| >>707813 no, I'm no righter neither lefter, I don't care about politics as long as the party in charge does it right, I don't mind democracy or comunism as long as it is done right, the problem is that no party in Spain does it right, and those who are now in charge are far the worst with so many people losing their jobs because the president is greedy as fuck and doesn't allow anyone to think on their own. I don't want to live here if I don't know me or my family will have a job
| >>707839
If you are truly apolitical then don't buy into misinformation campaigns, or even dare to spread them if you are not in the game. There is nothing worse than ignorant people who don't even move a finger to change how things work and have the gall to whine about how everything around them works.
Is our country aging and indebted with a nepotist politic environment? Sure
Do we have empty hospitals and somehow funnel money into us because of the pandemic? Come on...
| OP, just to have some context, which part of Spain are you from?
| >>707857 I don't follow campaings, try to search on global news and it is true that Spain is giving unprecisse numbers and Europe is asking for answers. Doctors themselves have send photos of empty hospitals, wouldn't understand why would they do that if they were lying. If you search on the BOE you can clearly see that money will be given to provinces depending on the number. Money is going everywhere but people and poberty and crime are increasing because of it.
>>707858 Madrid.
| And as I say, empty hospitals or not I'm not as scared of covid as I am for the economy and my chances of stuying. Is scary to go to the city and see that more than half of locals have closed forever. Been on a ghost shopping center before (as a result of the same party 10 years ago) and it feels as scary. Covid is just an excuse for Spain to spend millions of € of masks that don't work, vaccunes that don't exists and for some weird reason tanks.
| >>707863 They are probably doing some deviation on the muns and lieing about where it is going, they are also using empty hospitals as a cover up to show "hey, we are investing and the money is in use, its all working" wich is fucked up, mask work when they are properly implemented and used but it seems that buying masks is just an excuse for money laundry, hope things get better
| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I tried. Some people are plainly delusional...
| Spain is a failed state. Conservatives didn't manage to break their relation to the fascist dictatorship under franco, the royals are anachronistic assholes and the only reasonable people, the basques and the catalans seek for regional independece, while the central government doesn't even consider to grant them some autonomy.
| >>707839
>I'm no righter neither lefter, I don't care about politics as long as the party in charge does it right
Well, this is what most right-wingers tell and eventually believe. In the end it depends on what kind of politics is "doing it right" to you.
>I don't mind democracy or comunism
The implication of this statement that democracy and communism are inherently contradictions actually is typical right-winged propaganda.
| Idk what people have against right wingers nowadays, but its very scary, that they are putting so much fault at it.
Some problems are just deeper than the left right thing. Its just ignorant to put think like sides are everything
| >>707956
they're inherent contradictions because people aren't retarded. you gotta force them to not gain what they work for, ie. Berlin Wall. idiot
| >>707968
>you gotta force them to not gain what they work for
Ok, but now you're talking about capitalism.
>ie. Berlin Wall.
Yeah, of course west germany was more attractive to some germans because they knew what they did to the soviet people - and because the west was economically and personally (nazi intergration) pampered by USA in order to have an advertisement and buffer for capitalism. In most other parts of the world capitalism was/is forced to people through dictatorships.
| Man spain is looking worse than Brazil, and usa is just stupid rn, I recommend canada to OP nothing happens there, the economy is stable, 1st world country and it isnt a political shitshow, I too wanna escape my country but im also under the hope it will get better, brazil still sucks but can be fixed, I think...
| >>708011
Your thought failure is thinking in nationalist categories. But communism is not a nationalist thing, it's all about internationalism. This is a very basic thing that many historical "communist" leaders and anti-communist ideologues got wrong.
| >>707998
I studied history and I didn't "lump usa with nazis" - they did it by themselves. When the revolution in russia started prominent economical elites in the USA (a.k.a. capitalists) supported right-winged movements all across Europe - including germany. There are very tight relations between US-american anti-communism and nazism/fascism. This played a major role in the destabilization of central and south-american countries during cold war, but also in southern europe.
| >>708012
You are deluded if you believe capitalism is the end of history. Just look how politics have changed when it became obvious that the soviet union had inherent economical issues (which was not the case all the time. See "sputnik shock").
For example united germany today has a strong but export oriented and very unsustainable industry. Also all of this is achieved by massively lowered wages, moldering public infrastructure and eroding social standards.
| Spain. like most south-european countries (except italy) only has an economically mentionable agricultural and tourism industry. They tried to build an IT-sector, but (like most other countries) had no chance due big (US) company dominated platform bullshit. And today there is no country in the modern world which created wealth only out of crops. Without massive public investions into industry, countries like spain won't have a chance to compete. "Free" market is a myth.
| >>707551 I'm from Spain too OP. I agree, they're fucking us over. It's never too late tho I'm studying too to get the fuck outta here. If you wanna talk I'm here.
| >>12f94e I understand your points but you're being a bit of a jackass about it. Anyway what OP was trying to communicate to you is that no matter who's in charge in here we all get fucked over. No matter the political party. I'm not a man of political principles but for the last 12 years we've been screwed like no other country in EU because of incompetent leaders and it gets on my nerves.
| >>708208
>For example united germany today has a strong but export oriented and very unsustainable industry
it's almost as if globalized capitalism is an internationalist thing
>Also all of this is achieved by massively lowered wages, moldering public infrastructure and eroding social standards
see now you're describing communism
i have no idea what sort of red commie cocaine you're snorting but people in Germany live amazingly well
| >>708337
Globalization is a logical result of capitalist production. Even right-winged nationalist governments rely massively on the global transfer of goods.
Internationalism is a concept of communists to unite members of the working class all over the world against the capitalists (who are already united, do to international production chains of their industries)
| >>708337
>see now you're describing communism
Even the worst and most misguided communist dictatorships increased productivity and social standards on the long term. The only exception was cambodia. But hey guess who supported cambodian stone-age communists to take revenge on vietnam. Hint: They portray themselves falsely as the "leaders of the free world".
| >>708314
On the long term you can't run away from the problems in spain, since they aren't specific spanish issues but rather global ones. The whole world is going to be fucked up in the next decades. Just look how things developed in the "better" countries last years. Whole mankind will suffocate from the capitalist shit they produce and all "civilized" societies will erode and go amok for the 3rd time in this era.
| >>708347
communism FAILED
capitalism STILL WORKS
and all of this is IRRELEVANT to Spain since it's their own political class that's fucking them over
get your head out your ass commie
| the social standards in the commie block were miserable especially to capitalist countries and any russki anon can confirm
literally East versus West Germany
| god this is what i hate with commies. they are so pompous that they enter any conversation and immediately try to make it about their deluded bullshit that's a failed idea which even Lenin recognized doesn't work (on cashless rationing). and when you point out how wrong they are, they deflect and keep burrowing into nonsensical political crap while derailing all threads they come across
| you believe in communism because you WANT to believe in it, or something, or anything. you want to completely break away from something that you perceive to be completely useless because of it has a few flaws. you don't seriously think communism works, you just think it's a cool idea.
i'm pissed ooooffff
| >>b4e724 the worst part is when they try to say the real communism was never implememted, and even worse when they do their "own spin" and make their ocu(original communist utopia do not steal).
Its damn annoying, they should be at least more original and create a new system instead of reading an old russian delusional book and treat it were the "new" solution for mankind
| Why cant they just make something original? But well if they cant even see the flawns in communism and have to see their book as gospel, then I guess they dont have the free will and brains to think by themselves and build something from scratch, no wonders these people hate capitalism, they lack creativity, willpower and think that they are superior because of it, its just ridiculous
| >>708358
if there's one thing i really respect in them and their mindset is that they have something to believe in and want to change things for the better.
we all want a damn good purpose for giving it our all in this world.
i understand the appeal that communism might have since it tries to be the foundation for just "dude evrything works lmao" and kind of 'curing economy' if you understand.
people nowadays need things to believe in
| >>708359
>creativity and willpower
Were are capitalists creativity and willpower in times of crisis (like now)? They always cry for public money so badly because they are "system relevant". Don't make me laugh.
Talking about creativty: Capitalist mass consumerism arts sucks as much as the "modern art" bullshit created for the elites. They are all predictable boring and ever repeating nonsense bullshit.
| >>708363
The crisis in Spain is simmiliar to the crisis in other southern(european) countries and part of a bigger, global crisis. People that totally refuse this fact are part of the problem by refusing it.
| >>708361 true, but the path to hell is paved with good intentions and thats the problem, you cant just fix something, you have to think, adapt, and understand things, destroying society as we know just to put a whole system that was historically and scientifically proven wrong because they belive is what we need is selfish, authoritarian, ignorant, and just plain stupid
| >>708368 what is wrong with public money? Its was made by society for society, you know that just because we are capitalists doesnt mean people have to be 100% capitalism and only live by it, we can adapt and create new laws and services to fit our needs even if they dont go the capitalism way, thats called being creative, original, and having will power, we learn, adapt and try our best to overcome things, thats evolution at its finest
| >>708368
>whataboutism
>deflection
>>708371
>guys everyone's in on it!
also, see >>708354
>>708377
looks like something commies can't do
>>708376
looking back i'm surprised to read that i 'really respect' something in them, more like understand, i still think they're pompous pseudo-intellectual assholes
| >>708379 we can always respect good intentions, what we cant respect is the bad actions people take for those intentions, even hitler cared about germany and his people, the problem is that cared JUST for germany and his people, so hitler was an asshole pseudo intelectual that belived his ideology was the right thing to do in his own twisted logic for whats best fot germany.
I really hate when people dont notice that they are basically neo hitlers with comminism as an ideology
| >>708383 it takes a very specific mindset to become thats way wich is "belive in the good at all costs", no one is the villain in their perspective yet they really belive what they are doing is good so in their eyes they think the others are just evil and want to "keep their power" and fail to see the duality, hipocrisy is not being 2 sided its failing to see duality on the matter while still acting on it
| >>708354
>a failed idea which even Lenin recognized doesn't work
Lenin recognized that it doesn't work in retarded feudal country like russia with no mentionable industrial production means - because communism never was meant to be a concept for retarded feudal societies without industrial production means, but to industrialized ones. Unfortunately many communists weren't that much aware of the situtation they were in then lenin was.
| >>708354
So you suggest to restrict free speech for communists because you don't like them not accepting your understanding of the world and having a different one?
| >>708382
>communism is like nazism
While I agree with what you wrote about good intentions and bad actions I'd like to explain where I see fundamentally differences between communists and nazists/fascists: Communism doesn't distinct people between pseudo scientific concepts like race or random properties like ethnicity or nationality. Economical classes are measurable and existing groups which really have interest conflicts that actually divide them.
| you're talking about nazism but in your idiocy you're convincing me it's probably better since you're criticizing it
| >>708420 never said that communism is nazism, I said that the people who preach about communism are just as in the wrong as the people who preach nazism because they have a lot of factors in common when it comes to how they see those who disagree and the hipocrisy of their preaching and actions. Not only that but this applies not to just these 2 ideologies but also anyone who belives that they should do good at all costs.
Dont twist peoples words
| >>708417
I'm just curious how >>b4e724 how will deal with the situation that there are those evil communists that always
>deflect and keep burrowing into nonsensical political crap while derailing all threads they come across
Because >i'm pissed ooooffff
doesn't sound healthy on the long term. So there's only three ways:
- ignore them
- censor them
- have an open discussion with them
choose!
| >>708445
>never said that communism is nazism
>the people who preach about communism are just as in the wrong as the people who preach nazism
This "difference" seems pretty trivial to me. What matters is that nazist ideas were only had "good intentions" for a certain group of people, which aren't good intentions at all. And hypocrisy you have everywhere. I would always prefer a hypocritical communist over a honest nazi. The first one at least knows what's right and wrong.
| >>708443
Then I have news for you: jews aren't a race but genocide still is a thing.
"Jews" are as well an ethnicity as an religious group (which is pretty unique, btw.) There is no "race".
| >>708449 you do realize that you are being an autoritarian apologist right there right?
Calling somethins trivial is just stupid, you are just refusing to accept that I found a critical flaw in your way of thinking, if you are gonna act like that then you ar ejust bad a nazi, you are willing to scrifice society for the sake of what you see as good for the world, a nazi on larger scale, instead of a country its the world. You intentions are good but the actions are wrong
| Also funny how you started the whole communism for the world yet you forget that the thread is about spain, you dont really care about the well being of the people, you just wanna see the world become what you want it to be, a communist utopia, if you cared you would try to look at that the actual issues people face and give solutions for it, not just come here act all snarky and preach about how your communist ideals will solve the issues of not only spain but the world.
| You feel superior then us dont you? You think we are just fools, who are either misguided or under control of "the system" right?
You think you know how to solve everyones problem with just your ideals, and thats just delusional, I bet you will reply to this in some deviating bs way because you dont wanna see yourself as a somebody who looks down on others.
The world doesnt revolve around your. You cant fix the world with just communism, its childish to think so
| >>a3612b
>you do realize that you are being an autoritarian apologist right there right?
Yes, except that I have in fact no real authority.
>Calling somethins trivial is just stupid
Not if it actually is trivial.
>you are willing to scrifice society for the sake of what you see as good for the world
I don't see it as an sacrifice, but rather as a progress.
>instead of a country its the world
And this is a difference which is not trivial.
| >>708456
And Spain is not part of the world? As already stated most of the problems OP mentioned aren't specifically/exlusively spanish problems. They already occur in many other countries too and at the current rate they will occur in even more.
Me not caring about the people is nothing but a imputation. And yes there are people who only pretend to, and yes some of them call(ed) themselves "communists".
And one person can't solve peoples problems. It's a matter of consciousness.
| >>708458
>You feel superior then us dont you?
I don't. Maybe you're just projecting that you feel inferior to me.
And I know that and how people can easily be misguided and I see them increasingly believing in and doing foolish stuff every day.
>You cant fix the world with just communism, its childish to think so
It's not about "fixing the world". It's rather about not breaking it. And limiting thinking to old nationalist/capitalist patterns seems much more childish for me.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0
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| This country is literally under a dictatorship, nobody fights and governement steals so much money people are losing their job.
Also something funny, Spain doesn't have money, all the money comes from Europe with the excuse of Covid, but either numbers are lies or mask don't work, there are empty hospitals.
I'm tired and I'm finishing studying to go away as soon as possible, but maybe It will be already too late for me.