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I trump actually bad?
| I'm not saying he is good, just that he is not THAT bad and is overall a 6/10 that, if excluding public opinion, could be argued to be at most an 8/10
| The fuck?? How can you even ask this? Have you even paid attention to him at all? Mother fucker lies like it's breathing and trashed the foundation of our country so he could make more money.
Yeah. He is that bad.
| >>701666
Some people live in their own bubbles and creates their own realities. Facts bounces off of them like rubber.
Yes, Trump is that bad and any sane intellectual sees trough it instantly.
| >>701666 >>701672 i mean, yall calling him bad but aside from being bad at PR and even at handling the riots at the start, what did he do that is so bad and makes him a the nazi russian worst president in the history that is a dictator?
Look anyone can call anyone a liar but few can have an alibi and prove why someone is a liar whithout compromising themselfs.
Tldr. Proof i guess? Sorry it it sounds too snarky or condicending
| >Trump _is_ a liar.
>Take the NYT story about his tax returns for example. IF the NYT story is "fake news" like Trump claims it is then he can prove it by releasing just one page of his 2016 and '17 returns, that critical last page of Form 1040 that includes his signature and total tax paid.
>One page, & he could thoroughly humiliate media and Biden. He won't, and we all know why.
| >>701677 so just becase of 1 not 100% confirmed lie means that all he does and say is a lie and justifies everything they say about him? And like its about taxes? The thing that every big company does and lies about? All his actions up until now was just a cover up for his taxes? He doesnt have any redeeming qualities?
| President Donald Trump has repeatedly lied about the coronavirus pandemic and the country’s preparation for this once-in-a-generation crisis.
Here, a collection of the biggest lies he’s told as the nation endures a public-health and economic calamity. (please remember that The US has 4% of the world's population but 25% of its coronavirus cases).
| When: Friday, February 7, and Wednesday, February 19
The claim: The coronavirus would weaken “when we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”
The truth: It’s too early to tell if the virus’s spread will be dampened by warmer conditions. Respiratory viruses can be seasonal, but the World Health Organization says that the new coronavirus “can be transmitted in ALL AREAS, including areas with hot and humid weather.”
| When: Thursday, February 27
The claim: The outbreak would be temporary: “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”
The truth: Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, warned days later that he was concerned that “as the next week or two or three go by, we’re going to see a lot more community-related cases.”
| When: Multiple times
The claim: If the economic shutdown continues, deaths by suicide “definitely would be in far greater numbers than the numbers that we’re talking about” for COVID-19 deaths.
The truth: The White House now estimates that anywhere from 100,000 to 240,000 Americans could die from COVID-19. Other estimates have placed the number at 1.1 million to 1.2 million. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, suicide ...
| ... who died by suicide in 2017, for example, was roughly 47,000, nowhere near the COVID-19 estimates. Estimates of the mental-health toll of the Great Recession are mixed. A 2014 study tied more than 10,000 suicides in Europe and North America to the financial crisis. But a larger analysis in 2017 found that while the rate of suicide was increasing in the United States, ...
| ... the increase could not be directly tied to the recession and was attributable to broader socioeconomic conditions predating the downturn.
| When: Multiple times
The claim: “Coronavirus numbers are looking MUCH better, going down almost everywhere,” and cases are “coming way down.”
The truth: Coronavirus cases are either increasing or plateauing in the majority of American states. Increases in state-level testing do account for some of the increase in cases and, on average, the country’s positive-test rate is lower than it was in March and April. ...
| ... But those numbers obscure the situation in more than a dozen states where, as of this writing on May 27, cases are still increasing.
| When: Wednesday, June 17
The claim: The pandemic is “fading away. It’s going to fade away.”
The truth: Trump made this claim ahead of his rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, when the country was still seeing at least 20,000 new daily cases and a second spike in infections was beginning.
| When: Thursday, July 2
The claim: The pandemic is “getting under control.”
The truth: Trump’s claim came as the country’s daily cases doubled to about 50,000, a higher daily case count than seen at the beginning of the pandemic, and the number continues to rise, fueled by infections in the South and the West.
| When: Saturday, July 4
The claim: “99%” of COVID-19 cases are “totally harmless.”
The truth: The virus can still cause tremendous suffering if it doesn’t kill a patient, and the WHO has said that about 15 percent of COVID-19 cases can be severe, with 5 percent being critical. Fauci has rejected Trump’s claim, saying the evidence shows that the virus “can make you seriously ill” even if it doesn’t kill you.
| When: Monday, July 6
The claim: “We now have the lowest Fatality (Mortality) Rate in the World.”
The truth: The U.S. has neither the lowest mortality rate nor the lowest case-fatality rate. As of July 13, the case-fatality rate—the ratio of deaths per confirmed COVID-19 cases—was 4.1 percent, which places the U.S. solidly in the middle of global rankings. It has the world’s ninth-worst mortality rate, with 41.33 deaths per 100,000 people, according to Johns Hopkins University.
| When: Multiple times
The claim: Mexico is partly to blame for COVID-19 surges in the Southwest.
The truth: Even before Latin America’s COVID-19 cases began to rise, the U.S. and Mexico had jointly agreed in March to restrict nonessential land travel between the two countries, and U.S. Customs and Border Protection says illegal border crossings are down compared with last year. ...
| ... Health experts say blaming Mexican immigrants for surges is misguided, especially when most of the individuals crossing the border are U.S. citizens who live nearby.
| When: Multiple times
The claim: Children are “virtually immune” to COVID-19.
The truth: The science is not definitive, but that doesn’t mean children are immune. Studies in the U.S. and China have suggested that kids are less likely than adults to be infected, and more likely to have mild symptoms, but can still spread the virus to their family members and others. ...
| ... The CDC has said that about 7 percent of COVID-19 cases and less than 0.1 percent of COVID-19-related deaths have occurred in children.
| When: Thursday, August 27
The claim: The U.S. has “among the lowest case-fatality rates of any major country anywhere in the world.”
The truth: Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, and India all have lower case-fatality rates than the U.S., which sits in the middle of performance rankings among all nations and among the 20 countries hardest hit by the virus.
| When: Thursday, August 27
The claim: Trump “launched the largest national mobilization since World War II” against COVID-19, and America “developed, from scratch, the largest and most advanced testing system in the world.”
The truth: These claims are incorrect and misleading. The federal government’s coronavirus response has been roundly criticized as a failure because of flawed and delayed testing, entrenched inequality that has amplified the virus’s effects, ...
| ... and chaotic federal leadership that’s left much of the country’s response up to the states to handle. Trump vacillated on fully invoking the Defense Production Act in March, set off international panic when he mistakenly said he was banning all travel from European nations, and was slow to support social-distancing measures nationwide. Widespread use of the DPA was still rare in July, despite continued shortages of medical supplies.
| Another claim: Trump celebrated a gain of 9 million jobs as “a record in the history of our country” and said that the United States had experienced “the smallest economic contraction of any major Western nation.”
The truth: The country did gain 9 million jobs from May to July—after losing more than 20 million from February to April, during the pandemic’s first surge. And more than a dozen developed countries have recorded smaller economic contractions than America’s recession.
| When: Friday, March 6, and Monday, May 11
The claim: “Anybody that needs a test, gets a test. We—they’re there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful” and “If somebody wants to be tested right now, they’ll be able to be tested.”
The truth: Trump made these two claims two months apart, but the truth is still the same: The U.S. does not have enough testing.
| When: Wednesday, March 11
The claim: In an Oval Office address, Trump said that private-health-insurance companies had “agreed to waive all co-payments for coronavirus treatments, extend insurance coverage to these treatments, and to prevent surprise medical billing.”
The truth: Insurers agreed only to absorb the cost of coronavirus testing—waiving co-pays and deductibles for getting the test. ...
| ... The Families First Coronavirus Response Act, the second coronavirus-relief bill passed by Congress, later mandated that COVID-19 testing be made free. The federal government has not required insurance companies to cover follow-up treatments, though some providers announced in late March that they will pay for treatments. The costs of other non-coronavirus testing or treatment incurred by patients who have COVID-19 ...
| ... or are trying to get a diagnosis aren’t waived either. And as for surprise medical billing? Mitigating it would require the cooperation of insurers, doctors, and hospitals.
| When: Tuesday, March 24, and Wednesday, March 25
The claim: The United States has outpaced South Korea’s COVID-19 testing: “We’re going up proportionally very rapidly,” Trump said during a Fox News town hall.
The truth: When the president made this claim, testing in the U.S. was severely lagging behind that in South Korea. As of March 25, South Korea had conducted about five times as many tests as a proportion of its population ...
| ... relative to the United States. For updated data from each country, see the COVID-19 Tracking Project and the database maintained by the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
| When: Monday, May 11
The claim: America has “developed a testing capacity unmatched and unrivaled anywhere in the world, and it’s not even close.”
The truth: The United States is still not testing enough people and is lagging behind the testing and tracing capabilities that other countries have developed. The president’s testing czar, Brett Giroir, and Fauci confirmed the need for more ...
| ... testing at a May 12 Senate hearing too. They said that the country won’t be able to perform 50 million tests, about what the country needs to safely reopen, until the fall.
| Another claim: The United States has conducted more testing “than all other countries together!”
The truth: By May 18, when Trump last made this claim, the U.S. had conducted more tests than any other country. But it had not conducted more tests than the rest of the world combined. (As of May 27, more than 14 million tests have been administered in America.)
| When: Multiple times
The claim: “Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more than any other country.”
The truth: COVID-19 cases are not rising because of “our big-number testing.” Outside the Northeast, the share of tests conducted that come back positive is increasing, with the sharpest spike happening in southern states. In some states, such as Arizona and Florida, the number of new cases being reported is outpacing any ...
| ... increase in the states’ testing ability. And as states set new daily case records and report increasing hospitalizations, all signs point to a worsening crisis.
| When: Tuesday, March 17
The claim: “I’ve always known this is a real—this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic … I’ve always viewed it as very serious.”
The truth: Trump has repeatedly downplayed the significance of COVID-19 as outbreaks began stateside. From calling criticism of his handling of the virus a “hoax,” to comparing the coronavirus to a common flu, to worrying about letting sick Americans ...
| ... off cruise ships because they would increase the number of confirmed cases, Trump has used his public statements to send mixed messages and sow doubt about the outbreak’s seriousness.
| When: Thursday, March 26
The claim: This kind of pandemic “was something nobody thought could happen … Nobody would have ever thought a thing like this could have happened.”
The truth: Experts both inside and outside the federal government sounded the alarm many times in the past decade about the potential for a devastating global pandemic, as my colleague Uri Friedman has reported. Two years ago, my colleague Ed Yong explored the legacy of Ebola outbreaks—including ...
| ... the devastating 2014 epidemic—to evaluate how ready the U.S. was for a pandemic. Ebola hardly impacted America—but it revealed how unprepared the country was.
| When: Monday, March 2
The claim: Pharmaceutical companies are going “to have vaccines, I think, relatively soon.”
The truth: The president’s own experts told him during a White House meeting with pharmaceutical leaders earlier that same day that a vaccine could take a year to 18 months to develop. In response, he said he would prefer if it took only a few months. He later claimed, at a campaign rally in Charlotte, North Carolina, that a vaccine would be ready “soon.”
| When: Thursday, March 19
The claim: At a press briefing with his coronavirus task force, Trump said the FDA had approved the antimalarial drug chloroquine to treat COVID-19. “Normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it’s—it was approved very, very quickly and it’s now approved by prescription,” he said.
The truth: FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, who was at the briefing, ...
| ... quickly clarified that the drug still had to be tested in a clinical setting. An FDA representative later told Bloomberg that the drug has not been approved for COVID-19 use, though a doctor could still prescribe it for that purpose. Later that same day, Fauci told CNN that there is no “magic drug” to cure COVID-19: “Today, there are no proven safe and effective therapies for the coronavirus.”
| When: Friday, April 24
The claim: Trump was being “sarcastic” when he suggested in a briefing on April 23 that his medical experts should research the use of powerful light and injected disinfectants to treat COVID-19.
The truth: Trump’s tone did not seem sarcastic when he made the apparent suggestion to inject disinfectants. Turning to Birx and a Department of Homeland Security science-and-technology official, he mused: ...
| ... “I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? … It would be interesting to check that.” When he walked this statement back the next day, he added that he was only asking his experts “to look into whether or not sun and disinfectant on the hands [work].”
| When: Friday, May 8
The claim: The coronavirus is “going to go away without a vaccine … and we’re not going to see it again, hopefully, after a period of time.”
The truth: Fauci has repeatedly said, including during a Senate hearing on May 12, that the coronavirus’s sudden disappearance “is just not going to happen.” Until the country has “a scientifically sound, safe, and effective vaccine,” Fauci said last month, the pandemic will not be over.
| When: Multiple times
The claim: Taking hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 is safe and effective. “I happen to be a believer in hydroxy. I used it. I had no problem. I happen to be a believer,” Trump said on one occasion. “It doesn’t hurt people,” he commented on another.
The truth: Trump’s own FDA has warned against taking the antimalarial drug with or without the antibiotic azithromycin, which Trump has also promoted. Several large observational studies in New York, France, ...
| ... and China have concluded that the drug has no benefit for COVID-19 patients, and Fauci and Trump’s testing czar, Brett Giroir, have also cautioned against it as the president has repeated this claim in recent months.
| Another claim: “One bad” study from the Department of Veterans Affairs that found no benefit among veterans who took hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 was run by “people that aren’t big Trump fans.” The study “was a Trump-enemy statement.”
The truth: There’s no evidence that the study was a political plot orchestrated by Trump opponents, and it reached similar conclusions as other observational reports. ...
| ... The VA study was led by independent researchers from the University of Virginia and the University of South Carolina with a grant from the National Institutes of Health.
| Another claim: Many frontline doctors and workers are taking hydroxychloroquine to prevent COVID-19.
The truth: Multiple trials are under way to determine if health-care workers should take the drug as a preventative. But there are no conclusive numbers for how many workers are taking the drug outside of those studies.
| When: Thursday, August 6
The claim: A coronavirus vaccine could be ready by Election Day.
The truth: The timeline Trump proposes contradicts health experts’ consensus view that early 2021 is likely the earliest that a vaccine could be approved.
| https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/
| While yes those were lies, they werent made wirh malicius intent, most of what he said was either rummors from insiders or just stuff he heard and decided to say it to calm people down, say what you will but the many medical experts contradicted theselves, because the virus is new and there was a lot of things to discover about it, especially before jully. Science is everchanging and one study could be thrown away in months or weeks
| >>701729
>they werent made wirh malicius intent, most of what he said was either rummors from insiders or just stuff he heard and decided to say it to calm people down
Since you're the one asking for proof earlier I humbly ask you for proof for these claims of yours.
| You cant attribue malice and think that justifies calling somone a racist, a liar, the worst ever and etc, trump isnt THAT bad.
| >>701730 his tone voice, his history as a person and also the lack od reasoning beheind this, what would benefit him from spreading those lies? Not only that but have you seen him talking about it? He always say "I've heard from..." before talking about these things, its just rumors from insiders that he hears not only that but it doesnt match any things he wants, he wants the pandemic to end so if he can find anything that could mean it then he will say it
| >>701733
>his tone voice, his history as a person
These statements aren't proof. If you genuinely believe you we have nothing more to talk about. You're downright delusional.
>and also the lack od reasoning beheind this
There are literaly tons of fact-checked evidence posted in this thread that anyone including you can follow up upon.
| >>701732 look if there is no malice then all he is doing is being slightlly missinformed and and gossiping wich everyone does. So why is him being acused of so much bad stuff for doing something that everybody does, thats some next level hipocrisy from the midia.
Again trum is not super or the best, he just isnt THAT bad
| Even if his statements quoted earlier was made in either ignorance or malice it still makes him a bad person considering it have lead to economic downfall and the death and suffering of millions of Americans.
To sum up the topic of the thread: President Trump is bad.
| >>701734 no, those were just proof of the lies, not how it would benefit him or any of his plans, just because someone makes a mistake doesnt mean they are evil and are only doing it for their own benefit, its like people expect him to be perfect but when he makes a mistaket hey start beating on him like he is the devil or something
| >>701735
A president isn't "slightly misinformed" when making untrue statements about COVID-19. It's downright incompetent to not be well-informed about such matters during a fucking crisis.
| >>701736 but like yeah thats the thing, people would die anyways, its a pandemic, even if he ordered to close everything people would still say no because he would be the eveil dictator that is using the pandemic to assert control and the states would refuse to obey and more people wpuld die again
| >>701740
>but like yeah thats the thing, people would die anyways
Nope, every other country managed to get it under control but Trumps America didn't. Again, 4% of the population but 25%+ of the cases.
| >>701738 if you are gonna blame him then you should blame the people and the governaments of all other countries too, nobody knew anything about it and there was a lot of medical professionals that made the same mistake as him, people were confused and even if he is the preseident he was also confused, being unprofessional isnt being mailicious.
Wich meabs that he is not THAT bad.
| >>701743
But the governments and people of all those other countries got it under better control than USA? Why should anyone be blaming them for what goes on in the US?
You're crazy. You know that, right?
| >>701741 look at Brazil they closed early and are the second worst, not only that but while he was saying all the stuff its not like he was forcing the states to act on his words, wih means that despide disagreeing he didnt take any actions against said decisions of the states, meaning that all he did was disclose his personal opinion and an atempt to control or dismiss the virus that has barely any info to begin with
| >>701745 dude US and Bazil are huge, have a hight population and a very politicaly divided public opinion, guess what it means that people at least 1/4 of the peopulation wont follow the instructions wich means that people will act independent of what the governament says and will only make things worse, thats why those counrties are handling it so bad, the people are divided and cant make decisions
| >>701746
Well, I have posted veriviable and verified evidence in this thread that proves those statements of yours as false.
| >>701748 ok, still doesnt prove that he is the evil dictator that people say he is. Wich is my whole intention, I just wanna know whay people think the is considered bad but all you are doing is reforce that he is just like anyone else. Wich id fine by me and I agree with you.
| >>701749
Kid, you can't agree with me and also state that "Trump isn't that bad. He's an 8/10". I genuinely believe him to be that bad of a president and a person.
You've just been making up excuses for him this entire thread despite mountains of evidence contradicting everything you say.
Again, you're crazy. You know that, right?
| >>701752 I said that if we exclude him being bad at pr and public opinion he is AT MOST an 8/10 and that he would be more like AT LEAST 6/10.
Also if you yourself say that you belive him to be that bad(as in a an evil monster) as both a president and a person, how can you that I'm under an illusio?
| I never said that he was an evil person or anything of the sort. That all came from you.
| >>701752 wich is more realistic? An eveil nazi communist, that wants to see the world burn and is all his actions are deliberatly calculated to bring only lies and misfortune to ruin the country, or just a very egotistical guy that tried to become president, succeeded and is treating the country as a company and is trying to expand its economy the best he can while being falsedlly acused of being eveil just because he doesnt speak like a pr manager?
| >>701757
You're using a strawman argument and therefor a lie.
https://effectiviology.com/straw-man-arguments-recognize-counter-use/
| >>701756 if you dont belive that, why are you argueing against this thread? This thread was made to ask questions to those who think that trump is evil, you are not the target here. Like sorry for taking your time I guess.
| >>701758 straw man isnt a lie its a what if, if you dont have trump derrangement syndrome the go do other stuff, this thread is for me to study and analyse these people not you, unless you do have tds and just cant realize but thats on you not me to decide again if you dont see him as the great evil then this thread isnt really for you and you have my respect for beliving what you want
| >>701759
I have never argued against this thread. I have debated the topic from OPs(yours) post labeled "Is trump actually bad?" and I have shared my views accompanied with verifiable facts about said question.
In no way did you ever specify in your opening post that this thread was about asking questions about evilness or malice.
You're either lying in order to do some weird form of damage control, or you're fucking delusional.
| >>701761 ok man belive what your want, if you cant interpretate what I said properly at>>701657 and>>701658 thats your problem thanks for the discussion but it isnt what I expected
Gonna make anothe thread to clear the missconceptions it caused to you
| yanks
| Yanks
This thread is permanently archived
| Like, he isnt perfect, but he did a great job with the economy, as much as peoole say, he did his best handling the pandemic and recived compliments for it, he is helping the east with the peace treaty and he is offering to help the states with the violence, its just that they are refusing to accept his assistence
So asside from the stuff he supposedly says, his actions arent that bad with some decisions being good