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Do people have free will?

| This debate started in a in thread at /new/, with the arguement that if we remove capitalism there wont be any greedy people and that the system and enviorment can control and manipulate people into expliting others but my arguement is that most peole are not greedy and that only a few individual, are greedy because most people can think for themselves

So, what do you think? Do people have free will or we dont, everything in society manipulates us and we cant do shit?

| https://boards.dangeru.us/new/thread/698280

Thread links for those who want to see the thing, also please dont start a debate about politics here, this is about human nature and if we are able to think for our selves

Btw I belive we do have free will

| Sort of both. I'd say people make choices, but they don't determine what the choices available/visible to them are. In that example, some people are greedier than others naturally; culture has come to teach self-centeredness; and capitalism inherently produces something that looks like greed because economic units that put profit ahead of any other principles have an inherent advantage. But in the situations each person happens to end up in, there are options with different results

| >>700369 true i belive the same thing

| I think people who are greed are just peole that, due to trauma and maybe mental illness, cant really know when things like profit and capital are enough, so they just try to hoard as much as they want to compensate for something even if it costs the life of others

| I don't think free will is real, for me it is just an illusion given by the complexity of nature.
Independently of that question, Political Science exists for a reason and manipulation of the masses is a simplified way to understand it. When general system theory originated, scientist hoped it would serve to prevent wars, poverty and other major problems, but instead it has been largely used to win elections and keep people quiet.

| >>700387 but I mean, being quiet doesnt mean not having free will, heck, freedom and free will are completely different, just because you are folowing orders doesnt mean that you cant think for your self, if that were the case nobody would break the law since these are the rules and corruption and crime would never even be a thing

| Haha, i was/am one of the people in that long ass discussion. I'm glad it can continue somewhere without political baggage, since its an interesting question on its own.

I supose i think its a mixture of both, erring more on the side of "not really in a functional sense". I do think we are capable of "thinking for ourselves" at least in a sense. But also that outside factors have so much influence and are so complicated, they form a web of a kind of "destiny".

| >>700419 well if you wanna put destiny into the mix then I might as well put the concept of multiple timelines in, the universe is very much a chaotic reaction, so there are infinite possibilities of how some event can happen since we have free will we cam choose said possibilities and that os basically choosing your own destiny with your actions and other peoples actions into the mix wich has a chaos facactor in your own perspective

| >>700367
Rephrasing the OP, with capitalism around you can't have free will unless you have enough money, hence people are greedy because they want to have free will.
It's natural that people always want to be better than others, not necessarily in terms of money.
During socialism people crave for status, during monarchy — for approval from the king. National-socialism was good because everyone had a strictly defined place in society since birth, but it ended up poorly last time.

| >>700421
Fuk i didnt even think about multiple timelines... i also if there could be a "destiny" of the universe or somrthing like that. i guess the question is of things are truly chaotic or if everything has an original cause that can be traced back to the origin of the universe.

All nationalist thought is based on lies and mistruthes, therefor it can never provid a way of seeing true purpose or productivity. But that's not really relevant to the question of free will.

| >>700430
>All nationalist thought is based on lies and mistruthes, therefor it can never provid a way of seeing true purpose or productivity
All real life ideologies are based on lies and mistruthes.

| Depends on your definition of "free will," I guess. Check this out:

"Your decisions are strongly prepared by brain activity. By the time consciousness kicks in, most of the work has already been done," said John-Dylan Haynes, a Max Planck Institute neuroscientist. He was a co-author of the study that has proven that our the decisions our brains make can be predicted (by scanning the brain) roughly 7 seconds before our conscience even becomes aware of said decision.

| Not conscience, consciousness. Anyway.

The decisions in question were pretty simple - whether to press the button with the left hand or with the right hand, or something like that. But even for more complex decisions the mechanism is roughly the same - your brain comes up with a decision entirely on its own and then just makes your consciousness aware that you're doing that thing now. But of course, the ever self-important consciousness thinks it has done all the thinking itself.

| >>b1f77c
Damn, that sounds very interesting and kinda creepy at the same time. I love it!

| >people in the USSR were not greedy
muh not real gommunisem
>homo erectus in prehistory were not greedy
m-muh gabidalisem not exist yet
>children are not greedy
m-mm-m-muh kids live in gabidalisem!
>infants who see a shiny toy in the hand of some other snot production factory doesn't feel like ripping it out of their hand
gabidalisem genetics!!!

face it, greed is part of human nature... to a degree

| >>700481

| >>700482 not your fault if people have terrible takes, tbh thats what I spent the most time argueing against

| >>b1f77c i always felt like the subconsious was a part of you, and if you ever dont trust your subconcious all you gotta do is stop and thik, the fact that you can go aginst it proves that we have the free will to ignorr our instincts even tho they are very good and right most of the times

| >>700511
Actually, it's more like your consciousness is only a part of you, since it's basically a construct created by your brain as a way to observe and perceive (although in a very limited fashion) your mental processes. When you stop and think, it's basically sort of like your "subconscious" (your brain) and your consciousness having a chat, during which the subconscious kinda processes the neuron links getting activated in the brain. In the end, the brain is still in charge.

| >>700517 true, I think you just explained what I was trying to say

| I wonder why this thread was moved to /new/ it was made especifically to avoid the political debate and have a more in depth disscussion on free will, now this thread will be ignored and die because most people ignore threads here

| >>700549
Because it ended up being political anyway.

| Do people have free wifi?

willy bill bonk draulgle

| Free WiFi for all! Seize the means of posting!

| >>700552
>ended up
It literally started with a statement that capitalism somehow has a connection to free will. It was political all along.

| >>700789
I believe that was just a recap of the original thread, and this one wasn't supposed to be like that.

| >>700789 that was just to recap and explain why the talk started, I even put the original thread here and said to keep the political stuff away

| Free will cant exist when everything about you were determined at your birth

| >>701191 if free will in that sense is real, then not believing in it would be bad. But if it's not real, choice is an illusion. So we should all choose to believe in some kind of non-mechanical free will because it's guaranteed to at least not be wrong

| >>0ddc81 why would disbelief in free will be bad though? I get that realisation of nothing being in your control can be depressing for majority of people, that they are simple machines that follow a simple linear path predetermined at your birth through genes and enviroment but being able to recognize this fact and still trying to deny it is mindless coping tbh

| >>701230 this
And since we can even think to that extent we for sure have free will, we can think whatever we want

| >>701230 if you're right, there's no such thing as being right so it doesn't matter. While if you're wrong, then that attitude isn't conducive to trying to do good/meaningful things

| >>701307 if life doesnt matter and has no meaning, you make the meaning, you are so scared of making your own meaning that you want to negate your own freedon within your mind, that speaks a lot and really shows why people still have religions, cults, drugs etc. They are scared of not having meaning and fail to realise their own freedom since they chained themselves for their whole lives.

| We have the free will to negate that we have free will by thinking thet we dont have free will

| >>0ddc81 assessment of how existence works does not necessitate a moral statement, we can still wonder about how our reality works and we can strive to achieve scientific progress. Accepting the current reality instead of coping even could help us solve the moral dilemmas since it would be easier to analyse causal relationships that leads to a event/crime and we can build a better moral schema

| >>701311 and here we have somebody who made a meaning for life

Total number of posts: 37, last modified on: Sat Jan 1 00:00:00 1601386456

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