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who do you think lies to themselves more? the right or the left?
| not saying that covid isn't significant btw, stay at home and wear a mask when going out. but i've seen people act like you're going to fucking die a slow and painful death if you ever contract it, which is false for most people
| The right are science deniers too, just with earth more than humans. Things like climate change and flat earth deniers are mostly in the right leaning spectrum.
| >>686471 agreed, a lot of them like to be contrarian to anything a scientist says because it makes them feel like "free thinkers" or something. i've never met a left wing anti vaxxer, or a left wing person that thinks covid isn't real.
| >>686443 if you're talking about me you're wrong because i fully believe in science and i'm not a right winger. and i'm right when i say some people blow covid out of proportion, because some people have been doing that. just because i don't think that i'll die from contracting it doesn't mean i don't know others more vulneable to it will, like the elderly or people with health issues. do you really think i'm gonna deny it's existence and spread because of one opinion lmao
| >>686432
Funny, I'n my opinion the exact opposite is the case:
The right tends to lie to themselves more about science and biology, while the left tends to lie to themselves more about social issues and problems with their country.
And I'd also say the right does it more often because they create differences where are none. They often mix fragments of science together with esoterical, anti-materialist stuff, because they forget the world in fact is materialistic.
| There are also parts of the left who pray stupid social-romantic ideas. One important major difference between the left and the right is, that lefties share some fundamental generic/universal values while they fight each other massively about specific topics (e.g. israel-palestine conflict). The right on the other hand agrees more on specific topics, while they differ massively on generic/universal values (or even have none).
| >>40335e that's actually pretty true. i guess both sides have people that feel the need to lie to themselves about things.
| it seems that the way you view each side is based on interactions and the ones you see the most.
| Im gonna lurk here thats interesting point and analysis
| >>686498
>the left tends to lie to themselves more about social issues and problems with their country.
Those are liberals you're talking about, not necessarily "the left".
| >>686503
>lefties share some fundamental generic/universal values while they fight each other massively about specific topics (e.g. israel-palestine conflict).
Kinda true on this one, but the state of China might be a better example instead of Israel-Palestine.
There's nothing "left" about supporting a fascist ethnostate, and the left as a whole can agree. But then again, that might be the case with the liberals, not the left.
| Liberals don't belong to the left.
If anything, they are fascist enablers that only embrace the status quo with virtue signaling without addressing the real cause.
| leftists just care about populism and about "giving away" more money for old people as i know.. i don't see progressivism there
| >>686600
There are right-winged and left-winged liberals. Liberalism is the idea that liberty is reached through individual freedom. While it respects that people are individual different, but it's often quite ignorant on how social-economic reality is and the dilemma between different peoples (economical) interests.
Right-wing liberals usually are economically privileged social-darwinist assholes, while left wing liberals are usually economically privileged hypocrites.
| >>686600
I agree, but that's not what people commonly believe. Especially in the USA the public debate is still deeply influenced by right-winged cold-war propaganda that successfully told people the fairy tale of everything left from the conservative realm is evil socialism/communism - including left-liberalism or social-democracy.
| That's pure ideology.
| Who actually cares
| Both sides lie to themselves as far as I can see.
After all, reality is whatever you want it to be.
| reality is infinite lies
| each lie is infinitely complex
| truth is boring, let's all wallow in the depth of the abyss of illusions
| I want truth
| The right is totally stupid. They complain about annoying leftists identity politics, while offering even worse identity politics themselves.
I don't understand why the gender topic became so popular, and why people are fighting so fanatical about it.
It's the ultimate battle between "it's good and needs no change because (we believe) it was always like this" blockheads in the right corner vs. rebels without a cause in the left corner.
| >>687076 and then the ones who want change decide to do 26 different genders and destroy its meaning by saying personallity traits, objects and sexuallities are genders
Thats why its all stupid for both sides to argue, both are dumbasses that dont think about what they are doing
| >>687079 what is the old definition of men/women except two clusters of asdociated personality traits, objects and sexualities?
| *associated
| Older cultures generally considered trans people their own gender, but lesbian and gay people were considered the same gender as heteros. Discrimination was not that common until civilization started developing, and the downfall of one will be the downfall of the many. Behold the eyes of yu metrica detore
| >>687091 biological factors such as hormones, metabolism, physical traits, development of certain limbs and organs, also preferref stimulus or you are a science denier who lies to yourself?
By science the general genders could be male, female, trans agender, and them some wierd things that can happen with cromossomes x and y that could make some strange combinations like xyx and xxx
So around 6 genders excluding variations
| >>687091 i was counting those as things or personality traits
Actually your position kind of makes sense, but chromasomes and "trans agender" seem like they should be in totally different categories
I think what leads to people thinking others say there are however many genders is (propaganda and) taking a whole load of fringe gender related terms and deciding it is supposed to indicate a distinct gender, even if they're more things *about* gender or several mean the same thing
| it's funny how the lefties talk about the right being deluded when they consciously cover their ears on the scientific truth that there are 2 normal human genders. generally i find leftism to be a victim/passive mentality, where the idea is that the state will provide for everything so we don't have to get it ourselves (versus the right-wing economical justice) and follow the """liberal""" ideas of authoritarian restriction. i'll fall back on a position of "libertaryanism" for defs
| in my own opinion the ones that are the most deluded are simply just from the USA.
in the US "right-wing" means aggro-greedy cronyism and "left-wing" means bullshit corporate orwellianism.
the people that lie to themselves the most... well, some persons really need to believe in something, at the price of throwing anything else away..
in the "rest of the world", right wing means hard-working independent, and let wing means philanthropic humanity investors.
| >>687396
or, you know, maybe not. we are dealing with an issue in which both sides unwillingly head - or are lead - into basically the same outcome.
what we mean by democracy,
the world, including your own society, is moving towards a more autocratic and absolutist structure.
we are dealing with people that play us on both sides.
like the ones that sold cigarettes and started selling vapes.
they are the poison and the antidote.
it is profitable to make us lie to ourselves.
| so, i guess that in the end, this is a warning. unless we make a conscious effort to strongly support indoctrination-free education and political liberty, i can guarantee you that "right-wing" and "left-wing" will, in the end, become irrelevant as a concept.
Yuri Bezmenov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-lExqwvOr0
| divide and conquer, kill off ideals... i fully understand that there are people in this thread that mindlessly want to bash on anything right or left. but we should be bashing both, the dichotomy, especially if you see what it has done to the USA and how it's being propagated (?) through the world.
| here's my final point for this long ass tirade:
i know you people may be camping in one side and despise the other, but please - if you don't like right or left, swallow your combative pride and MAKE THEM BETTER!!
educate yourself and try to fix each other's problems if you can... and if you can't don't start a fucking political war... that's just not helping anything. the way out is by making ourselves and our movements better.
US rightism can be improved and so can leftism be.
| I'd say the right since they have a history of denying science, denying things such as systemic oppresion, and denying that things are more complicated than what they learned as a small child.
| ... and don't assume that these movements are supposed to be the norm.
US rightism is being redneck greedy so transform it into the idea that people should be incited to work hard in order to become better, NOT left in a corner to be a wageslave to big corpo.
US rightism is being a lgbttbraap multikulti trashcan. rid yourselves from that and embody the best side of yourself: a philanthropic ideal set on improving people's conditions through social reforms for better welfare.
| these movements have been POISONED, and i invite you all to become the cure.
don't fall to the crazy.
don't be a tool. don't lie. be good, and work to be a better and more modest person. if you believe you know then you do not know.
damn that was long, sorry for that. also i even said i was making my final point a while back, guess i screwed up. now come here and tell me how wrong of a devil i am...
| >>687404
US leftism** is being a lgbttbraap multikulti trashcan
also US rightism should stand for personal independence and individual betterment too
| >>686432 I can't see the difference apart from that leftists were socialists back in the day but mow are either gay or lesbian.
All politicians lie a lot and that's a fact. So I can't see the difference between lefties or righties as both are waste of my time.
| >>687715
sounds like healthy thinking, and what do you think of my >>b5e61e ideas then? because i feel like yours would be compatible, keep in mind, i'm not exclusively talking about making left/right better, but improving political philosophy as a whole to "remove the stupid" from it.
| >>687829
i think that the best way would be to just break away, think for ourselves, and generally try to be good persons.
we define politics, not the other way around!
| And hiprocisy from both sides
| 2+2=5
| >>687404
>a philanthropic ideal set on improving people's conditions through social reforms for better welfare.
This is actually known as "social democracy", which existed long time and partly actually quite successfull (politically and economically) in Europe. Unfortunately they have a sad history of treason to more radical left movents and workers and they ultimately fell to the neoliberal hegemony when the ussr collapsed.
| >>688036
Well of course 2+2=5 could be a valid term, depending on how you define the symbols and their meaning.
Let's say your...
2 has the value of a decimal 3
5 has the value of a decimal 9
+ would be the operator for a mathematical multiplication function
= is an equal operator
then 2+2=5 would be absolutely correct.
| Natural language is often very vague and ambiguous. When the USSR collapsed it was seen as a defeat for the economical/historical materialists (=marxists) within the political left lair. This caused the rise of more immaterialist leftists, who believe they can improve things by making language more precise and less ambigous (political correctness is actually linguistical correctness).
| But this assumed "linguistical relativity" (changing reality by changing language) is highly questionable and the beast of capitalism was unleashed rapidly. And this is opened a gap, where the "new" or "alt" right could enter. While they notoriously shout a the "leftists political correctness", they (re)introduced their own language policy, which isn't about making language more precise or less ambiguous.
| Instead it's about destroying meaning of words by changing their definitions according to their ideology. While leftists hate inconsitency and try to enforce consistence, rightists give a fuck about it and destroy meaning with highly emotionalized kindergarten logic. Right ideologies are less materialistic and correlate massively with esoterics, pseudo-science and conspiracy theories. The immaterialist realm is the political rights element. So the left can't beat them there.
| >>688142
Well, if it's about politics, everyone is biased according to the political opinions/believes he shares. To say someone is "absolutely unbiased" and knows the "truth" which is in some ominous "centre" is biased as well. Who knows, maybe my opinion is in fact the most "moderate" and "reasonable" one here and you just perceive it from your corner.
| Just take a look on history. On the long term the future belongs to the left. The political right had always to re-adjust their stance as soon it becomes too ridiculous to keep the old status quo. Or what happened to the power of all the once god-chosen kings, nobles and clerics? Left is progression and action, right is stagnation and reaction. It should be no wonder if you think were these terms originated from. But the right again actively tries to destruct the semantics here.
| They summarize the whole left under terms like "liberals", "commies", "the antifa" and rebrand them as "the true nazis", while they act themselves if they are the "voice of everyday normal people". But in fact the right are elitist, racist, nationalist and/or religious fundamentalist particularists who always serve upper class interests by applying "divide and conquer" on people.
Also the right makes up funny propaganda terms like "cultural marxism", which doesn't make any sense.
| >>49941a you are very biased on the left while you put the all the bad things on the right, your opinions ignores all the radicalism of the left and even puts attributes of the current left onto the right
And your statement about 2+2=5 is absolute bullshit since i didnt especify anything beyond 2+2=5 wich is in fact incorrect, also the side that has been twisting words and meaning in the current landescape is the left
| Racism, facism, incel, privilege, reactionary, phobias, these words have lost their meanings and the future is not left, or at least it shouldnt
You are just fooling yourself if you think that the left is the thing that will save us.
Both sides are extreme and lack proper reasoning
| And I could say that the right has way more consistency since they try to hold themselves to their values while the left are ussually revolutionarys that want to change the status quo, but in the current modern politics it seems more to me that they are trying to implement a politicaly correct authiritarian utopia while the right is trying to end globalization and revert the world before it so that they can "restore" their nation to their former glory in a very idealistc way
| So the extreme end conclussion for both sides suck and both end in less freedom and restrictions that hinder our evollution and thecnological development as a species
| Obviously the people who disagree with me!
| sounds to me like leftism is the worshipping of weakness
socialism in an excuse for weakness anyways
| To everyone in this thread:
Fuck you all, you are all a bunch of mentally ill retards. :) Clearly, Donald Trump is Hillary Clinton's wife, and they rule your country, while Joe Biden is Obama's mistress. ;p
| "Biology." All of modern day academic consensus agrees about transgenderism, any appeal to random crazies who get excommunicated for their crackpot theories and dishonest reporting would be an example of lying. Like what happens all the fucking time
| Good Lord, why there's so many long posts
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| in my opinion, the left tends to lie to themselves more about science and biology, while the right tends to lie to themselves more about social issues and problems with their country.
though i think the left usually does it a bit more as they often choose to forget facts and how the world works. such as biological differences between humans, how genders work, and how they blow things like covid out of proportion.