danger/u/
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Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked

| ..the numbers suggest a different story.

"By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.
Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people.
Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million."


| >we did it, spongebob! we were the most tolerant of them all!


| Further afield the Czech Republic, which has a similar-sized population -- 10.7 million -- to Sweden, has recorded 7,449 cases and 223 deaths -- around two deaths per 100,000 people. It took a markedly different approach to the pandemic.."
(CNN)

This has nothing to do with politics. Please ignore the racists. I'm just skeptic wether the herd immunity strategy is working or not.
What do you think?


| Further afield the Czech Republic, which has a similar-sized population -- 10.7 million -- to Sweden, has recorded 7,449 cases and 223 deaths -- around two deaths per 100,000 people. It took a markedly different approach to the pandemic.."
(CNN)

This has nothing to do with politics. Please ignore the racists. I'm just skeptic wether the herd immunity strategy is working or not.
What do you think?


| >>650478
>ignore the racists
this is fine. ears closed pls.


| >The Swedish government has tried to focus efforts on encouraging the right behaviour and creating social norms rather than mandatory restrictions
>In Sweden, most measures designed to combat the coronavirus are strictly voluntary
at least they're not fascists, right? i mean, that'd be the worst outcome, imagine telling people what to do


| Ehhh it's not that "herd immunity" doesn't work. It does.
However, if you want to minimize deaths, that's a less considerable option.
We do have tools to lessen the impact of pandemics. Let's use them.
And beyond this, we know minimal changes to lifestyle and customs can relieve the health system of its current load. Our medics need some room and time to live, eat sleep, work. If we need to isolate to give them some room to not die of overwork, then why not.


| I don't know anything about the health system in Sweden.
I can't really judge their hospitals/health system critical capacity, but depending on that, maybe their options would be limited anyways.


| >Ehhh it's not that "herd immunity" doesn't work. It does.
I don't really know how exactly it would work since the characteristic of the virus itself is yet to be fully known.
There are even a lot of cases where cured patients got tested positive again after contacting the virus instead of being "immune".


| >Our medics need some room and time to live, eat sleep, work
Very true, and that's exactly why. Wouldn't be better for them if the government isolate the country right from the start instead of risking the lives of their citizens also overloading the medical facilities?


| >>cfb12b
Did Sweden really say that? Source please.

The name of the thread should really be "Corona death numbers in Scandinavia" instead of this misleading title.

Sweden have said that they won't know if their tactic is working until later this year when other countries are starting to open up and we can compare.

The head of WHO however said that he believes the Swedish model will favor them long-term and that the second Corona wave won't hit them as hard due to herd immunity.


| >>cfb12b
The reason Sweden's death toll is so high is largely because a lot of non-swedish speaking foreigners died early because proper information wasn't available in their languages.

They also have a more correct way of measuring deaths than most other countries do. They cross reference all deaths their tax agency receives with doctors notices in order to facilitate if it's Corona or not.


| >>cfb12b
Most countries doesn't count Corona deaths occuring in old folks home as Corona related but Sweden do.

The official Swedish statement from the government regarding the high death toll at old folks homes is that "it's considered a failure and that we let our old down".

Sweden doesn't know of these numbers are high in comparison to other countries old folks home numbers for reasons stated above.


| >>650473
Please share the source you base the name of the thread on, OP.

I've been looking among official Swedish government sources and can't find anything that backs said statement up.


| >>650529
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html


| >>650531
That's a clickbate headline from CNN and not an official Swedish agency.

I can assure you that the Swedish government itself never uttered those words.


| >>542a88
>Source please
It's in the link I have posted.
While I do agree that Sweden is doing great works in this state of pandemic, I'd say much better than those third world countries imposing half-assed "lockdown".
I'm just really concerned about their herd immunity strategy and the endgame.


| >>650534
The thread title is literally copied from the news title. I know I should have posted this thread with my own title.
But still, that doesn't change my point about the concern on their strategy.


| >>650535
Sweden doesn't have a herd immunity strategy though. It's even explained in the article you posted that they don't.

>>650537
It doesn't make it any less clickbait. Nowhere in the article does it even mention that Sweden said this. In fact it says the opposite
>She(Swedish health minister) said it was still "far too early to draw any firm conclusions as to the effectiveness of the measures taken in Sweden."


| >>650505
Immune systems are trained continuously. Partial immunity for (arguably and virtually) everyone is not a bad compromise.
Hard to achieve tho...
This is by no means perfect, by no means efficient, the outcome can not be evaluated in the same regard as a lockdown/protect/vaccinate strategy.
If you do get infected "twice", well your immune system might have an edge the second time. If it avoids you a trip to a hospital and you get through it after a week, that's a win.


| The numbers while absolutely heart-crushing, are not out of the relative scope of the pandemic.
They don't seem "off". Even tho putting it that way makes me seem like a psychopath. I'm kinda hurt from spelling those lines...


| >>650524 source on "Most countries doesn't count Corona deaths occuring in old folks home as Corona related but Sweden do."


| >>650479
>This has nothing to do with politics. Please ignore the racists.
A government choosing a strategy to fight a pandemy has to do with politics. The issue here is that there is no scientifically proof which measurements are how much effective. There is a big range of speculation, which makes politicians/governments nothing but gamble with peoples lives. We'll only know afterwards which approach was the economically ideal one.
I also don't agree on ignoring racism/racists.


| Sweden also photoshops black criminals to whites and lies about their ethnicity in the news.


| >>650581
Since there is no scientific proof on how to handle this no country knows how to do it correctly. We're learning as we go. This isn't the same as gambling and referring to it as such is just dishonest.

Also it's not about finding the economically ideal solution. It's about minimizing deaths while keeping the economy afloat.


| Anyone looking only at the number of deaths right now has not understood how the area under a "flattened" curve can well be the same (or higher) than under a higher but shorter curve.

If you want to compare Swede with its neighboring countries, do so when the pandemic is over - that is what ultimately counts.


| What will the numbers be in 18 months time? Sweden might have had more deaths now, some 6 weeks in, but I suspect that a greater percentage of the Swedish population is now immune -- assuming that catching & recovering cv-19 gives some immunity. That will reduce the R rate so fewer will catch it. They will be able to keep their economy in better shape -- whish is good as a poor economy is a health risk.


| In 18 months time will other countries have caught up with todays Swedish death rate?

We will only know how well the Swedish 'experiment' compares to other countries when this is well over in a few years time.


| >>650602
>It's about minimizing deaths while keeping the economy afloat.
To me this is equal to seek for an economically ideal solution. Don't forget that there are nations and companies competing with their likes. They are sitting around a table playing poker with the pandemy crisis politics like they do always.


| >>650817
Which countries do this?


| >>650817
I get what you mean, but maybe "ideal" is too strong in this case ?

I think the "playing poker" part is not inaccurate, but some european countries that used to import a lot of fruits and vegetables from their neighbors are now almost completely closing these commercial routes.
They're kinda turning one big game to small games that keep the participants from exchange.


| >>650836
Especially those countries run by unsolidarity/nationalist governments (which increased in the last decades).

And also big companys that want so swallow the small ones to become even bigger.

So there we have our dumb stupid competition.

The problem is that there is to no one enough information available to make the right choice at the right time. That's why I call it gambling.


| >>650974
Most European countries produce more food they consume. They only import stuff they can't produce by themselves like cocoa, coffee, bananas, etc. But those things aren't really essential. Sure it's a big business, but that's tourism and football too. The only thing is they aren't really essential. The Idea about the shutdown is that the economical damage is lesser than let the virus spread and eventually collapse the healthcare system. And it's lethal to rich people too...


| >>651281
would you say that sweden, france, usa are nationalist governments?


| >>651281 >>651297
I was asking for specific countries to be identified otherwise we risk spreading FUD, propaganda and unbased rumors.

You two made the claim but you're very sparse on actual details.


| >>651282
Spanish fruits are quite a big deal in France (those could also be produced and consumed locally in other European coutries, instead of being imported), and unfortunately they are offered for very competitive prices.
The prices did go up, on top of those (cheap af) alternatives being less available, or even not at all.
I do believe it's an acceptable price to pay. But if I place myself from the perspective of someone who is now unemployed, I'd be in a shitty spot.

Total number of posts: 36, last modified on: Sun Jan 1 00:00:00 1588533240

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