This thread is permanently archived
Marxists and Socialists
| >>626942
Because socialists aren't automatically marxists. Socialism existed before marx. Marx (and also Engels, who is often forgotten) had many disagreements with socialists in their time. That's why they wrote the communist manifesto, and later "the capital". But their work had three main problems:
1. It was ahead of their time.
2. It underestimated the ability of the capital to rule with a carrot and stick and the working classes stupidity.
| 3. It was too dogmatic/optimistic about trying to predict historical developments, which equals somehow the opposite of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
| Marx himself stated in his late days that he's not marxist.
Nevertheless, you could discuss whether marx and engels ideas actually provide solutions (which just were interpreded/execuded false) or if they aren't even are solutions at all.
But you could not say that their method to analyze society and history as a result of the economic system is totally wrong. It's probably still what comes closest to reality, compared to other "approaches" like blaming a made up jewish conspiracy.
| >>626942 because internet people are dumb :) I think a lot of internet Marxists' ideas have no basis in practice, and they came to them by thinking about why socialism is economically possible, so that's what they lead with in discussions. And they don't need a commitment to humanity since they're not doing political work with people. Plus internet arguments have a tendancy to divide "socialism" and "identity politics" way too much because everything is about taking sides
| >>627234
>Plus internet arguments have a tendancy to divide "socialism" and "identity politics" way too much
No they don't "Identity Politics" exist within in all political corners. There are conservative, liberal and socialist identity politics. They all form a circle around identity politics and have different kind of intersections with each other. Marxists (who are part of the socialist bubble) are unique because they proclaim economic class identity as the one to rule them all.
This thread is permanently archived
| Why do Internet Marxists who supposedly hate the Capitalist rampage of these two last centuries rather sound like ex-Harris/Dawkins/Kurzweil fanboys who want to reduce every facet of Man into "economics" (read: number-crunching), while every hard socialist I met outside is adamant about human dignity first and how to crunch numbers to make it possible next.
Typed from Europe obviously.