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European elections
| Europe is like Alethkar, you may join these smaller nations under one banner but all the petty infighting and their history of warfare against each other will keep the rest of the world safe from them
| Regarding the first point: Brexit, enough said.
Regarding the second point: Brexiteer's fantasy in a nutshell.
Regarding the third point: Well, we already have China, Russia, and the USA for that. Just to name a few sizable ones.
| third option. i vote federalist, fuck europhobes
| Option 2.
#1 is diplomatically controversial, to say nothing of domestic public opinion.
#3 fails because even a centralized EU wouldn't have the balls, the will or the coordination to stand against Czar Putin.
| >>564375
>#3 fails because even a centralized EU wouldn't have the balls, the will or the coordination to stand against Czar Putin
so you just wave the white flag eh?
#3#3#3
| >>564429
If you can't beat 'em join 'em, or join somebody else who can (people always thought that would be the US until Obama & the Crimea) or get good.
Take an actual look at the EU militaries, most of them are far inferior to Russian forces in not only quantity but quality.
The most egregious is example, granted things are cheaper in Russia, is that Germany maintains a military budget similar to Russia's & yet most of their equipment doesn't even function.
| Moreover, the individual states lack the will to build a compotent war machine, & integration won't change cultural aversion to perceived militarism or to increased military spending or service.
Furthermore, most large European armies *already* suffer terribly from overbureaucratization. In Britain, for example, privates are essentially expected to outsource their higher thought processes to their officers.
| This is just one example, but you can surely see how divergent military cultures will cause issues. On top of that, federalization is only liable to exacerbate the bureaucracy & make necessary discretionary action more difficult.
This last point is crucial, because it's one of the main reasons the 3rd Reich lost Europe. The troops on the ground, even generals couldn't move without explicit permission from supreme command.
| Conversely Russia's informal power structure facilitates discretionary action relatively well. The gears have been greased & are turning nicely, whilst western European militaries are sorely in need of an oil change.
So a united European Union will still be an ineffectual defense against Russia. Let it go the way of the 1st Reich already so we can put a new paradigm in its place.
| >privates are expected to outsource their higher thought processes to their officers
Basically like a normal military?
| So, I've just read through the whole thing. I see now that European military bureaucracy is something that needs to be dealt with. Which the E.U is suggesting needs to be fixed by creating an E.U army.
| >>564473 >>564474 >>564478 >>564479
you're suggesting we don't federalize the army. it can be decentralized but still coordinated for all i care. you've got a loser mentality; if we have a problem, let's just fucking fix it.
there is still no valid argument against #3
| >>564479
>defense against Russia
I don't want defense against Russia. I want to ally with them against the NATO, USA and CIA. They are the world leading official terrorist groups.
| >>565044
it's called international sovereignty and defense of interests. if we're limp-wristed then putinland will surely encroach the borders, just like that fucker's already doing in Ukraine. we should be strong enough to impose our own will on the world without having to answer to anybody.
| #BlameRussia
| >>565087
next time post a picture of a smug anime girl, that'll make a much more convincing argument
| >>565091 https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/va11halla/images/3/36/KidAnna.png/revision/latest?cb=20180416140921
| >>565086
Honestly, who gives a damn about Ukraine? Since when are russian oligarchs and reactionists worse than ukrainian ones? They're all of the same kind, sharing same interests. They don't care about people and benefit from letting them fight each other in the name of nationalis, while the oligarchy fills their chests.
| >>565086
Also I resist to see how "putinland" is worse than "bushland" or lately "trumpland". The the NATO, the CIA and the USA bended and broke international law so many times so massively with negative consequences that we have to deal with, that russia could reclaim the whole ex-soviet territory without any complains from the west that can be taken serious.
| >>565101
but the russian ones attacked first.
>>565102
sure. so? what's the argument against European sovereignty and defense of interests?
| >>565103
Not really. The coup etat in ukraine which removed the democratically elected president was an attack by the west. They also broke post-cold war agreements with russia and extended the EU and, even more critical, the NATO eastwards. And instead supporting nice guy Gorbachev, they pushed that asshole jelzin. Putin is no random hellspawn, he is the logical result of biased, aggressive and failed western cold-war politics. The intervention in Yugoslavia was a warning signal.
| >>565103
>what's the argument against European sovereignty and defense of interests?
There would be no argument against it, if these things were equal to peoples interests. But in its current form and facing the current power situation the it's all about the sovereignty and defense of european oligarchy on cost of common people that are played out against russians, refugees and even each other. The European Union has sereious democracy deficits and suffers from neoliberal hegemony.
| It's all a ploy from extraterrestrial beings to make humans fight each other and make it easier to conquer us
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| The European parliament elections are coming around the corner.
Should we leave, give the EU less powers over nations or turn it into a superstate that suppresses opposition?