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Communism or capitalism?
| Why do people still think communism works?????? Someone explain???????????????????
| >>555620 To find your answer just look on China or noth Korea.
They are still alive, so we can make some conclusion.
| >>555625 China isnt even economically communist and people in North Korea are dying all the time. Besides, east asians have evolved a way more communal mindset than westeners. We are way more individualistic and therefore wouldnt survive in North Korea like east asians do.
| >>555626 well, this changes nothing. Countries with communist architecture are real.
Give me proofs for dying corean people please, if you can. The screams of liberal idiots are not proofs.
| Capitalism all the way, I don't want government owning all production means
| Socialism is best, comrades; all extremes will cause problems, but socialism is the constant state of compromise and progress
QED =D
| People still think communism works becauase they still see problems in capitalism. The grass is greener on the other side. Other than that, the reasoning differs by individual. Some out of hatred of those that have more, others out of a desire to rebalance power, some out of true ideological fervor, amd others out of an actual semse of altruism. However, most of these indivduals dont actively live most of these principles, and it still exists because it only exosts in theory.
| Also, if I am to understand the commie girls around here, N. Korea, China, and USSR were not "Communist", merely advanced forms of socialism. Also, on that note, if you define Communism amd Capitalism by their pure forms, then *every* nation around the world is technically socialist, just by varying degrees. Also, if you question why people still belive an economoc theory, just rememeber that anti-vax is a thing.
| historical note: marx was a marxist, communism was a contemporary movement, and i suspect marx would have dropped his ideological ties with the communists as soon as the faults began to surface. he was (ironically enough given the 'human nature' meme) very pragmatic and his primary goal was to see a humane evolution from capitalism to a new level of society
i might whip up a laundry list on pastebin to address the nonstop chain of errors that masks as a thread. or i might jacc off
| Capitalism over socialism and communism always. Capitalism isn't perfect, but I'd rather be able to purchase higher quality goods and services that I need over being at the mercy of the government to A: actually supply me on time or B: Give me descent quality service. I'm a proponent of privacy and being allowed to purchase goods I want.
| Can we also agree that pinning the world wars on capitalism is BS?
| Why not choose the middle ground? Both capitalism and communism have serious problems, (although communism would be better if we actually got it work properly without putting a dictator in power). We could utilise social democracy for a period of time, and eventually transition into democratic socialism when we feel comfortable enough to do so. Social democracy shares many of the same goals as democratic socialism, (curbing inequality, universally available public services, etc.)
| but is slightly less radical in that it does not feature collective ownership
of the means of production. Social democracy actually seems to present solutions to most of the major problems of capitalism, and thus would
be perfect for helping us decide whether we want to take this ideology further.
| >>555620
>Why do people still think communism works?????? Someone explain???????????????????
You have a wrong perception about how things are. The question is not if communism works. The question if and when mankind finally manages to solve the inner contradictions in capitalism. If we have success our society will become a communist one, no matter how it is labeled. If we fail, our species will either stuck in an eternal circle of death and pain or rather vanish.
| >>555625
Northkorea is more like a fascist military dicatorship with elements of hereditary monarchy. Officially any reference to "communism" was removed from the northkorean constitution years ago. Only western, capitalist media call Northkorea a "communist country", for propaganda reasons. In truth the officialy "democratic peoples republic korea" (dprk) is a bourgeois society in its worst shape: fascism.
| >>555625
Other than the sad reality about "DPRK", the "peoples republic of china" (PRC) is a very interesting phenomenon. They are in fact an autocratic estate capitalist system, officially led by a "communist" party. Other than "liberal" western capitalist societies, chinas foreign policy regarding development countries is much more constructive. In fact China practises capitalism in a much more original way than the west.
| >>555626
>Besides, east asians have evolved a way more communal mindset than westeners. We are way more individualistic and therefore wouldnt survive in North Korea like east asians do.
I call this false racist propaganda. If westerners are so much "individualistic" how it comes they had so many autocratic (e.g. fascist) dictatorships in the past? And how it comes that the popularity of such ideas is increasing again?
| >>555634
>I don't want government owning all production means
Ideally this government is you.
It's funny, liberal pro capitalist are always talking about self-responsibility and shout about how it is going to be taken away in communism. In fact capitalism is pretty much contradictory to self-responsibility, since the capitalist class takes the responsibility away from the lower classes.
| And the crazy communist strikes again
Ok we get it you love communism more than than your mother and you don't mind the government owning your life
all hail karl marx, here I agreed with you now please shut up you freaky cultist
| >>555960
>And the crazy communist strikes again
Sad to see that you are out of arguments and need to pathologize people with different opinions.
>Ok we get it you love communism more than than your mother
Let my mother out of this and I'll let yours out of the cellar
>and you don't mind the government owning your life
The government gives me more opportunities to participate than some companies which currently own peoples lifes much more.
| >>555960
>all hail karl marx
All to the almighty and whose invisible hand spawning from peoples egos and doing fair and well to everyone. Also all hail to eternal growth!
And closing eyes before the recuring rise of nationalist, racist, religious fundamentalist extremists, ignoring it's relation to capitalism or even more ridicolous: blaming socialists/communists for it.
>here I agreed with you
Not convincing.
>now please shut up you freaky cultist
No. What you're going to do now?
| uuuh lemme take uuuh "class flattening", "technocracy" and "credit system" out of communism... "meritocracy" out of capitalism... ooh, i'll have some "aristocratic elite" and "noble hierarchy" from fascism... an interesting blend with "class flattening"! i'll also add in "personality cult", "everything inside the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state", "propaganda"... hmmm... i'll sprinkle some "compassionate slavery" and "delegated master functions" on top...
| >>556033 crazy dough.
now to get the baking going... temperature: collectivism... leave it there for 'revolution' amount of time... 'reform' just isn't crispy enough.
uuuh, once thoroughly done, slice it up... the slices should have that socialism size where they're adapted to everyone... serve that thing in sturdy industrial plates, recommending those with monarchist colours...
don't forget the little cult-cherry on top, and a big healthy glass of "identity sublimation" and enjoy.
| >>556033 >>556037 update -
that cake tastes really weird but i kinda like it
it's just that no other old-world drinks match the taste
| Anarchy plz
| The very idea of communism is based upon the assumption that government is capable of complete control of people's behaviours on a massive scale.
This is simply untrue - if the government had such control crime would be at 0%.
"but the criminal element is deigned useful by the ruling class", you say with your delusional view of power.
Perhaps, but I for one will believe it when the most readily available example (CHYNA) manages to censor cartoon teddy bears.
| Not to seem pedantic, but I don't see any accurate definitions of communism. Communism is ultimately a classless, stateless society where the workers are in control. Government oppression we've seen in the socialist phase can be explained by paranoia, ecological conditions, and the fact that half the world at the time wanted to destroy communism. Non-communist countries have done this too, so I don't really see how this is a problem with communism.
| Fascism
| >556714 Did you mean "isn't?" Just wanted to know before I typed a response.
| >>556596 I don't think it's evident that crime would be at zero if governments could make it so. You might think of prisons as jobs programs.
Moreover, communism doesn't necessitate totalitarianism; ideally government would concern itself with large concerns and leave personal things to the person. Having worker-owned means of production is a start
>>556703 it's necessary for capitalists to believe communism (or x, y, z) can't work in order to believe capitalism is best.
| >>556737 eg capitalists can't argue against real Communist critiques of capitalism, and so they strawman by arguing against totalitarianism, often while ignoring the abuses of capitalism which may well end the human race through climate change, etc
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