danger/u/
German Court Allows Bell Dedicated to Hitler to Stay in Church

| The appeals court rejected a complaint by a Jewish man, who argued that the bell was 'a mockery and ridicule of the victims of Hitler's terror'

A German appeals court has rejected the complaint of a Jewish man against a town's decision to allow a bell dedicated to Adolf Hitler to continue to hang in a church tower.

The Koblenz state court on Wednesday upheld a lower court's rejection of the complaint from the unidentified relative of Holocaust survivors,


| who argued the bell was a "mockery and ridicule of the victims of Hitler's terror."
The Herxheim am Berg council voted last year to preserve the bell, which carries the inscription "Everything for the Fatherland- Adolf Hitler" above a swastika. It also announced plans to place an explanatory plaque nearby in the hope of sparking dialogue about violence and injustice.
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/german-court-allows-bell-dedicated-to-hitler-to-stay-in-church-1.6895368


| okay, so what?


| Yeah literally, it's their history they ought to keep it. You don't think Germany is proud of the the second war do you?


| >>526723
>it's their history
That's a stupid way to argue. History is always the history of the whole humanity, not only of one specific group.
>You don't think Germany is proud of the the second war do you?
1. Germany as a nation is, like any other nation, only a legal subject without any conciousness and mind. It can't be proud.
2. There is not much to be proud about for germans in WW2.
3. Pride of other peoples work ist dumb and most participants of WW2 aren't alive anymore.


| I'd prefer to have this damn bell in a museum, where it belongs to, like any kind of this nazi-crap. I also think so about this stupid monuments from fascists, imperialists, racists and other assholes. There were and are much better people who should remembered than such assholes: Rebels, recistance fighters, revolutionaries and liberators. Even in WW2 and even in germany.


| >>526729 I'm just happy you didn't call for the removal of the bell. Preservation of history, no matter how horrid, is important.


| >>526771 +1


| History should be preserved, no matter if we agree with the views expressed in it. Nazi viewpoints should not be propagated, but neither should they be stricken from history, as 1. They provide a cautionary tale, and 2. Its a slippery slope to mass "correction" of history.


| >>526771
actually I called for a removal of this bell. It just shouldn't hang there operating in the church tower as if nothing happened.
As always the so called "liberal" democracies seem to be more efficient in purging traces of failed socialist approaches than fascist, racist and imperialist stuff. It feels like they preserved this kind of spirit everywhere, just to be sure the reds won't come back. It's no accident, that the current systems loosers tend to the "new" right.


| >>526892 Well, you suggested it being put in a museum. That's not a removal from existence at least.
Also, I'd argue that Soviet symbolism are much more tolerated than that of the Nazis. You see people waving flags of the hammer and sickle freely, but the ones who wore the swastika get beat up. When it comes to written history however, such things as Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto don't seem to be overtly censored anyways. So I don't really see why you'd say that.


| >>526728
Humanity is just a lot of other groups. Discarding one is just cherry picking.

1. And a nation is composed of what? Talk about being a dense retard
2. They fought well. I'd be proud of my country if it was in WWII like Germany.
3. Discarding the pride of others, much more a whole country, just makes you an ignorant bastard. People being dead doesn't mean they must be forgotten.


| >>526918
>You see people waving flags of the hammer and sickle freely
No, I don't see this people. Pls. tell me more about them.
>but the ones who wore the swastika get beat up.
In reality it's not only about symbolism and in fact the other way arround: In germany the police and military are blind to crimes done by neo-nazists. They are rather part of the problem. Neonazis murdered freely more than hundred people here since 1990.


| >>526939
>Humanity is just a lot of other groups.
The whole thing is always more than just the sum of its parts.
>And a nation is composed of what?
It's composed of lies that should make us forget that the real borders are not between nations, but between economical classes.
>Discarding one is just cherry picking.
No one did that here. It's the opposite case: Not to be free to judge about any group equally would be cherry picking.


| >They fought well. I'd be proud of my country if it was in WWII like Germany.
1. It doesn't matter how good you fight, if you fight for an anti-humanist and stupid cause.
2. The "Wehrmacht" did war-crimes in eastern europe which was together qualitative and quantitative unique. But that's nothing to be proud about.
3. Again: (Fortuneately) most people who "fought" back then and there are already dead. There is no point in being proud about something you did not achieve on your own.


| >Discarding the pride of others,
>much more a whole country,
Again: A country can't have pride. It's only a legal subject of geopolitics.
>just makes you an ignorant bastard.
No.
>People being dead doesn't mean they must be forgotten.
No one mentioned forgetting. In the opposite: We should always have history in mind, appreciating the good things and condemn the bad things. It is you who is the ignorant bastard here by trying to make the crimes of the past appear like heroism.


| Most of the German people are ashamed of what their ancestors did in WWII. Been to Germany, and heard people bring it up in conversation. Asked a couple of my German friends what people thought of it. Not many people are proud of Hitler.


| >>527029
Oh fuck, it's a commie. No wonder why it doesn't seem to have a functioning brain

>>>No one did that here.
>but we have to forget nazi history because the history of humanity is not about them, is about all the other groups


| >>526999 First of all, I was doing my best to be cordial here. What's with the condescending tone? 'pls'? Go fuck yourself.
Internet videos, of course. They might be biased, so it'd be great if you could counter that with vids where neo-commies are persecuted to.
I'd also ask you what source you gathered to come to the conclusion that Nazism is tolerated, considering anyone attaching Nazi symbolism to oneself is arrested. Granted, the right is rising in east Germany, but hey.


| I disagree that socialist and Soviet symbology is more heavily purged than Nazist symbology. Last I checked fragments of the Berlin wall are being shipped around the world as monuments. Also, whereas Nazi symbology is literally illegal in Germany, soviet symbology is still very legal in Russia. And lets not forget the billion that live in China, surrounded by socialist symbology.


| Now, before the "china and russia are good symbols of socialism" they are the two most prominent nations associated with it.


| >>526728
>Germany doesn't exist
hmmm i wonder why the far-right is making a comeback
>There is not much to be proud about for germans in WW2
it's almost as if they didn't nearly conquer the world...
>Pride of other peoples work ist dumb
what is culture
also what is most of civilization-legacy (largely created by whites, especially scientifics)
>most participants of WW2 aren't alive anymore
their legacy lives on


| >>526729
remember communists, oy vey. by the way, uncle addy brought Germany back from starvation, misery and utter destruction. ofc everything was fucked by the reds later, as the guy couldn't remember why he had generals
>>526830
slippery slope-whatever, i'm just against censorship is all. if you're truly for what you think you represent (freedom)
by the way, https://www.neweurope.eu/article/brussels-supports-social-media-platforms-anti-hate-speech-initiatives/


| >>527324
what i don't like about uncle addie is that he wanted to kill a whole lotta people and nowadays it gives degenerates a strawmanning bombshell.
"you love white people? you must like hitler!"
utter bullshit. i happen to love white people. i think they've done a fair fucking share of contribution to this world, way much than anyone else.
and now since i think sweden should belong to the swedes...
i'm a 'hitler-lover'.
i got sidetracked
moral of the story:
don't censor history


| >>527322 >>527324 >>527325
to tie this stupid rant in with what you said, i hate it when people weaponize history by strawmanning.
the only real reason you're so shocked when i say that i'm totally against racemixing and immigration is because of uncle addie once again. the dude was also against racemixing and it turns out that since i agree with that stance, i "agree with hitler".
turns out i also agree with some points of communism and some stuff confucius said.
i'm not evil :(


| >>527173
>Oh fuck, it's a commie.
And? Is it not allowed to think that way in your so called "free world"?
>No wonder why it doesn't seem to have a functioning brain
Pathologizing is the last retreat of those who are out of arguments.

>but we have to forget nazi history because the history of humanity is not about them, is about all the other groups
I see a misunderstanding here. It was never about forgetting history. It was about the right to have a critical view on it as a human


| I'm always surprised how one can one twist words that much to make it fit into his insularity.

What actually was written:
>>526723 >it's their history they ought to keep it
>>46c151 >History is always the history of the whole humanity [...] I'd prefer to have this damn bell in a museum

What you made of it:
>>527173 >we have to forget nazi history because the history of humanity is not about them, is about all the other groups
Just LOL


| >>527164
>Most of the German people are ashamed of what their ancestors did in WWII. Been to Germany, and heard people bring it up in conversation. Asked a couple of my German friends what people thought of it. Not many people are proud of Hitler.
I can confirm this. But I find it equally stupid to be ashamed of something you did not do like being proud of it. Much more important is to learn from history to no repeat its mistakes, not only as a german, but as a human beeing.


| >>527180
>First of all, I was doing my best to be cordial here. What's with the condescending tone? 'pls'?
Since when is pls (short form for please) not cordial? Also in a text conversation there is no "tone", so you just heard what you wanted to hear.
>Go fuck yourself.
Your vague biased suspicion does not justify this verbal escalation. So "please" let's stop this. I know, you want to and can be better than that.


| >>527180
Internet videos, of course.
Please give me links to it. I want Internet videos from people with hammer and sickle flags running through Germany. If it's so usual as you think, then it should not be a problem to find fresh videos from this year.
>They might be biased, so it'd be great if you could counter that with vids where neo-commies are persecuted to.
There are no videos, but there are several laws and processes against presumed "(neo-)commies". I'll give you examples:


| >>527180 >>527359
So for example in germany parties have a hard time to be observed or even forbidden. After WW2 there were two parties banned in (west-) germany:
- Directly the SRP (nazists)
- A little later the KPD (communists)
When germany united, the new founded "PDS" (socialists) was observed by secret services over years. At the same time far-right parties seem to be much more tolerated: No ban of NPD (neonazis), no observation of the AfD (far-right)


| >>527180 >>527359
During cold war there also was also introduced a law called "Radikalenerlass" which was supposed to ban extremists from jobs in public institutions. Sounds good in theory, but practice it was (and partially still is) different - which was intentional. While former nazis could still stay or become teachers, professors, judges, ministers or even chancellor (Kurt Georg Kiesinger), thousands of people suspected for beeing "communists" were banned.


| >>527356 In a civil discussion, 'pls' sounds extremely mocking. Try doing that in a verbal conversation and ask the other party what they think of it. Of course, depending on the person, they might not give an honest opinion, but you'd be able to see them freezing a bit to process that information. 'I'd prefer if you were to tell me more' sounds far more polite than 'pls, do tell me more'. And so, pls learn more about subtlety in language.


| >>527180 >>527359 >>527361 >>527363
There are still cases that show that these aren't only old stories from cold war era. For example parts of the executive (police, military and secret services) still often stick out by connections with the far-right scene. Some Bundeswehr (german army) barracks still have the names of nazi-officers. There are several scandals of nazi symbolism used internally in army and police and they failed massively fighting nazi-terorrism (e.g. NSU).


| I was not talking about Germany specifically, though I suppose I'd be redirecting the subject. I admit I know not much about Germany and it's political landscape, so I thank you for informing me of happenings there. Still, while I may not be contributing to this thread in the near future, I'll be sure to bring this up with some German friends of mine to.ask for their insight.

Also, slightly related but off topic, but what do you make of the refugee crisis in Germany?


| >>527364
Maybe here's a cultural difference. In germany saying "please" and "thanks" is generally seen as kind/polite.
>'I'd prefer if you were to tell me more'
Yeah, but you know, the number of letters here is restrictive. So
'pls' saves many characters.


| >>527366
>Also, slightly related but off topic, but what do you make of the refugee crisis in Germany?
I would say there is no "refugee crisis" in germany. There are refugee crises in africa, the near east, eastern europe and latin america. But in europe this affects the most the southern and south-eastern countries and eventually those with a larger colonialist background.
I suspect that the few refugees we "welcomed" are only seen as cheap labor and scapegoats by politics.


| >>527347
Never wanted a free world.
Arguing with a commie is like trying to outrun a cripple, so that's why I said that. Shouldn't be long until you die of hunger, anyway...


| >>527322
>>Germany doesn't exist
No one here said germany that.
>hmmm i wonder why the far-right is making a comeback
I tell you why: Because capitalism failed (again).
>>There is not much to be proud about for germans in WW2
>it's almost as if they didn't nearly conquer the world...
Except the most parts of the world that weren't conquered and counter-conquered them.


| >>527322
>>Pride of other peoples work ist dumb
>what is culture
That's a very good question, I have an very long answer for. Wanna hear it?
>also what is most of civilization-legacy (largely created by whites, especially scientifics)
That's a clearly historically incorrect racist propaganda.
>>most participants of WW2 aren't alive anymore
>their legacy lives on
Which is a burden and an unintentionally negative example.


| >>527383
>Never wanted a free world.
Then just shut-up, slave! ;-)
>Arguing with a commie is like trying to outrun a cripple, so that's why I said that.
Actually cripples outrun you easily with the right kind of prosthesis. A gentle reminder that, thanks to technology, we don't live like animals anymore, so adjust your way of thinking properly to this "new" circumstance.
>Shouldn't be long until you die of hunger, anyway...
Most people died of hunger in feudalism and capitalism.


| >>527366
To explain why our chancellorette Angela Merkel pretended to "open the borders" (while in fact the opposite happens), was to attract the large left-liberal audience. On the other hand the socdems and left party suffer the most, since their audience carries the weight of the left-liberal idealism, which makes them partially attracted to easier messages by the far-right.
Her "liberal" refugee policy is in fact neither left nor liberal. It's pure neoliberal pragmatism.


| >>527386
You're not my master, stupid dog.
Doesn't mean we're not animals anymore. Society could collapse any second, and you would die like the subhuman you are.


| >>527444
>You're not my master,
Oh, what a little rebellious communist we have here :-P
>stupid dog.
Dogs can be pretty intelligent animals
>Doesn't mean we're not animals anymore.
Biologically we still are and also our psychology often reminds us of this heritage. But you can't deny that humans have achieved a significant higher level of consciousness, technology and culture.
>Society could collapse any second, and you would die like the subhuman you are.
I promise you I wouldn't.


| >>527447 don't dogs have the intelligence of 3 year olds or something

Total number of posts: 45, last modified on: Wed Jan 1 00:00:00 1549406262

This thread is closed.