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what do u g/u/rls think of ecosocialism?

| Ideas of Joel Kovel, Michael Löwy etc.
Is it ideologically proof? Is it better alternative to old school communism and capitalism?
Yay or Nay?


| Military Technocratic communalism.
if we take away your little beds and put you in communal barracks with canteen and infirmary and inbuilt school and train you all day on various tasks and techniques, you'll soon forget that you were one day selfish at all.
you'll go through boot camp, return you to the dorms, then put you on service duty which can be anything as long as it's useful related to a strict societal minimum that also enables civilizational evolution.
lab coat future


| >>408425 That demands perpetual total mobilization though, & even societies which attain a very highly mobilized state tend to let it slip over time, see the USSR.

I believe it would take a Nausicaa sort of scenario to bring about ecosocialism, but I think a degree of anarchoprimitivism would be healthy for society. It's just that society is resistant to it.


| >>408445
all societies are resistant to change. without a Motor force they'll be stagnant or slow compared to their potential abilities. how many millions of skill-less homeless and jobless are there in this world?
this notion of communalism also puts faith in the individual; that if you put time and resources into an individual, he'll restitute the investment after some time by basically being useful through acquired skills and abilities.


| it doesn't need perpetual total mobilization. if you take an idiot off the streets and teach him how to plant carrots, you'll have at least one guy who can feed a batch of people in times of need. take a million of them, filter out the really worthless ones (repurpose them) - you have maybe 500k left. if you train even just half of these, you'll have 250k farmers ready to feed your army.
here's the food cost handled.
there are millions of potential labour units on the street.


| >>408451
the worst part is that sometimes we're even helping them to stay worthless. most of the time they're stuck in some billion-dollar imperialist money machine. i mean corporations are a clever thing and i'm no commie by any means but if what they do is exploit people and prevent them from leveling up in experience and ability to produce services they're pretty fucking annoying.
and we give them NEETbucks.
and they stay there. for years!


| i'm saying the system is stupidly complicated.
there should be one military commissariat handling defense, research, police, diplomacy, and internal affairs. one council of admissions to handle whatever is left.
throw everybody in training camp and teach them to plant carrots and lift boxes. after 3 months send them wherever you need them. if they're good, give them the choice to change to whatever discipline they want, provided that they'll stay there for 5 years being useful.


| working and helping should simply be mandatory. the difference between whether you're dumb or clever just makes you go in box lifting or electrical engineering.
if you're totally unneeded... i didn't think that far. use the mas suicide squads, firefighting aides or jobs that nobody wants to do.

i'm sure there's a big problem with my system... i can't quite get to it yet. someone help me point it out!


| >>408457 are are describing perpetual war communism without actual war. Sometimes its called barrack communism and is looked down upon by left wing commies.


| >>408445 thanks for actualy answering the question. I never watched Nausicaa, but I will check it out


| >>408467
where is problem


| >>408470 mass mobilisation is not possible without the threat from either outside or inside. Also people don't really enjoy living in an oppressive state. That's is proven numerous times.


| >>408425 so basically the US military?


| >>408425 What a beautiful model of barracks communism! Here you have it all: communal eating, communal sleeping, assessors and offices regulating education, production, consumption, in a word, all social activity, and to crown all, Our Committee, anonymous and unknown to anyone, as the supreme dictator. This indeed is the purest anti-authoritarianism...


| >>408468 Nausicaa is one of the best mangas ever penned in history


| Ecologic questions already are part of the global class-struggle. The rich are save and give a fuck about environmental exploitation. It's the poor who have to suffer in the first place from things like environment pollution and global warming. For rich people it's just another opportunity to increase profits. They can effort themselves a nice house at a nice place with a nice car (or plane) to enjoy their lives.
So any true communism/socialism has to be ecological sustainable.


| >>408451
You can indeed put everyone to work & have conspicuous militarism without proportional mobilization (see the 2nd Reich for most of its history) but what you're talking about it putting the entire populace to work in such a tightly disciplined fashion is mobilization.


| Here in germany we have a saying:
>Selling a gas mask to an elk
The story behind this is the following:

Once there was a salesman, who was famous for his ability to sell everything to everyone. He already sold a toothbrush to a dentist, a bread to a baker and a TV for a blind person.

"If you want to be a really good salesman, you have to sell a gas-mask to an elk" friends told him.

The Salesman accepted the challenge and went to the northern woods where the elks live.


| >>408735
"Good Day", the salesman said to an elk he met "You need for sure a gas mask" "For what?" the elk asked. "The air is pretty good here." "But everyone has a gas mask these days", the salesman said. "I'm sorry" the elk responded "but I don't need one" "Just, wait a while" the salesman said, "You will need one."


| A little later the Salesman let build a factory into the wood, where the elks live. "Are you crazy?" his friends said. "No", he said, "I just want to sell a gas mask to an elk."

When the factory was finished, there came so many fume out of the funnel, that the elk came to the salesman and said: "Now I need a gas mask." "That's what I thought", the salesmn said and sold him immediately one. "High Quality!" he joked. "The other elks now also need gas masks. Do you have more?"


| "You are lucky", the salesman said, "I still have thousands"

"By the way", the elk said, "what do you produce in your factory?" "Gas masks", the salesman answered.


| >>408468
In summary the setting is that many years ago hyperadvanced mankind destroyed civilazation in enormous war & now people have to contend with the hostile & toxic environment their ancestors created with an ~early 20th century technological level.

The titular Valley of the Wind is Miyazaki's vision of an idyllic ecofriendly society.

>>408735
Gotta love that exploitative capitalism.


| Ecosocialism? Wat?


| >>409020 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism


| >>408747

In the manga there are more political settings, the movie is cool but pales by comparison.

Also the valley of the wind is a monarchy, but at least at the present it's a benevolent one.


| >>409788
Obviously there's more to the setting than fit in 500 characters, but the monarchy is honestly a moot point in my opinion. The village chief of less than 500 people can call himself King, but there's hardly the capacity there for anything very tyrranical there, especially when weapons are so abundant.

Total number of posts: 26, last modified on: Sat Jan 1 00:00:00 1537627555

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