Post number #280716, ID: 81e8fc
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I'm no commie or have interest in "Communism as the only viable option" but I still think this is an interesting discussion since this period set the stones for Planned Economy and would become the blueprint for all the commie countries in later years. It also seems very silly to consider this period "colorless" since it seems like there's a plural of many people and conflicts, rather than the direct argument of the pyramid hierarchy of Socialism.
Post number #280785, ID: 647a66
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As A Trotskyist, I just say fuck Stalin. ruined it for all of us
Post number #280972, ID: 51581e
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>Stalin did nothing wrong.
To be serious, I understand why he did what he did and to be honest it worked. When the Bolschewiki came to power, Russia was a feudal country on the brink of collapse. But already in the last years of WWII the UDSSR had the highest industrial output of all allies and axis countries. Also the only reason that Hitler didn't win World War II was the brave Soviets troops (more than 50% of all war atrocities were soviet troops).
Post number #280973, ID: 51581e
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I get why he was more authoritarian in such uncertain times. I get why he would kill his political enemies to stay in power. When you really believe that you are better fit than them to lead your country into a better world, you will try. And in such times people who wanted power killed people who had power.
Post number #280974, ID: 51581e
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But maybe the revolution had failed before it began. As Marx already said, the revolution (and socialism) has to start in a developed capitalist country, not in a feudal one on the brink of collapse.
Post number #280977, ID: 647a66
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>>280974 Trotsky did develop a theory on how agrarian country could jump straight to socialism without capitalist stage and this was what bolsheviki basically done in Soviet Union (if we don't count short NEP policy).
Post number #280998, ID: 51581e
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>>280977 and look how well that 'Socialism' worked in retrospective.
I know, we would have tried the same.
But I believe we have to understand that Socialism today wouldn't look anything like Socialism in feudal Russia. All the things people in the west criticizes about the UDSSR, had basically material conditions as a reason/were continuation of old practices. It was basically socialism with feudal characteristics.
Post number #281013, ID: 647a66
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>>280998 I think the biggest failure of USSR was that trade unions actually didn't have any real power. Other thing is that if you want to have efficient central planning you absolutely must have reliable accurate information about every factory and mine in the country which is impossible without some kind of network like system.
Post number #281052, ID: 81e8fc
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>>281013 The main issue isn't so much the information as it's the fact that people can't keep up with the plan thus they have to take measures like ordering more in order to produce enough for the plan and in case of the many potential failures.
Post number #281377, ID: 835f38
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Lenin was smart. He understood theory and how to do practise, including making compromises if necessary. Some of his methods were moraly highly debatable, thought. Stalin was a selfish idiot which understood nothing but manipulate people with the only goal to increase and secure his power. He was to dumb for communist theory, economy and military plus absolute amorally. He turned socialism into the opposite of the intention behind it.
Post number #281413, ID: 99116d
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Stalin is clever, be like stalin.
Post number #281511, ID: 6f6bc9
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Killed lots of inteligent people in Russia\Ukraine. Killed lots of writers, artists, musicians. Now look at modern Russia and Ukraine. Stalin was a nigger, and he left nothing but a niggerish ruins after himself.
Post number #283321, ID: 7b286a
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>>280973 Killing some folks to stay in power is one thing. Killing so many of your experienced officers that you get thrashed by a breakaway nation a small fraction of your nation's size & population is something else.
Stalin's government was patently hostile even to itself, in a way not unlike fascism, & it suffered shortcomings very similar to national socialism. Too much control meant too little independence for competent individuals, & many more govenrment fuck ups.
Post number #283767, ID: e2c07c
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I think I can speak for every anarchist when I say fuck Stalinism.
Post number #283815, ID: f224b4
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>>e2c07c Some anarchists would disagree with you
Post number #284375, ID: a15d1f
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>>283815 no, ancoms would entirely disagree with a statist, totalitarian ideology that arguably can't ever reach the communist society it purports to be building.
Post number #284492, ID: 2598e3
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>>284375 >statist
ancoms are ancaps in disguise confirmed
Post number #284622, ID: 577277
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>>284492 Lolwat? Tell that to a Zapotista.
But really >>283815, just look at how well the Ukrainian ancoms got along w/ Lenin. Can you imagine folks who detest the very notion of state control coexisting with a state predicated on the notion that it would control the entire economy from a boardroom in Moscow? At the very least, I've never come across such an anarchist.
Post number #284623, ID: 577277
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Apologies for the obnoxious red, missed a return on account of if being 0350 here m(__)m
Post number #284783, ID: 9b73aa
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>>283767 Stalinist anarchists? Sorry, my imagination does not reach out for that.
Post number #284806, ID: 7f0d97
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>>284783 https://youtu.be/T3SM40yI8ec
Post number #285063, ID: 6bd451
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>>577277 sounds like ancom to me
Post number #285526, ID: 929291
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>>284783 >stalinist anarchists Pick one
Imagine being this total douchebag that wants the benefits of anarchy (such as there are) but also wants to be the totalitarian dictator in power. Imagine the "each according to his ability, each according to his needs" system completely deleted and replaced with "anyone who is not me is inherently worthless and beneath me and can only serve as fodder for the whole that I envision," and that's "Anarcho-Stalinism."
Post number #286299, ID: faa5e6
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http://mirror.uncyc.org/wiki/Anarcho-Stalinism
For a parodic TLDR.
Post number #287495, ID: 219823
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>>286298 sounds like anarcho capitalism tbh
Post number #287528, ID: 7b286a
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>>287495 Sounds like megalomania imo.
Post number #287799, ID: 62cc98
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Stalinism is a cancer. I live in RUSSLAND and everyday I see all effects of communism/socialism. It is awful. Stalinism is a crime.
Post number #287808, ID: d1b135
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Its gay
Post number #287819, ID: b0a8fa
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>>287799 It's called Russia in English, fuckin German fag.
Also, Russia had its first recession after it became capitalist. And through Putin's crony capitalism it starts to rise again.
Post number #287879, ID: 3ecf43
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>>287819 im russian and i'll decide how to call my country
Post number #287895, ID: b0a8fa
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>>287879 sure anonymous stranger on the internet who uses the German word for 'his own country'
Post number #287900, ID: 3ecf43
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>>287895 просто иди нахуй, got it?
Post number #287904, ID: 647a66
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>>287900>>287895 'two russian g/u/rls dominate one another'
Post number #288059, ID: 781248
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>>287904 gimme a link sis, i wanna see it
Post number #288963, ID: 0c1168
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>>287799 Actually it is called "russian federation". Also the name of the language would be better translated as "russlandish". >everyday I see all effects of communism/socialism >Stalinism is a crime. Congratulations, you fall for stalinists, capitalists and nazists propaganda: "stalinism=communism/socialism"
Post number #288996, ID: 52f345
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>>288963 lel, i saw that communusm in every country always become stalinism/polpotism/maoism. Do you believe in existance of "true communism"?
Post number #289003, ID: 647a66
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>>288996 how about Paris commune or Revolutionary Catalonia? they were alright
Post number #289216, ID: 60bdf4
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>>288996 So Russia, Cambodia and China is "every country" in which communists/socialists came in power to you? What about e.g. cuba, ghana, chile, and vietnam? Also pls throw away your computer/phone which is made by evil communists (Maoists)
You can repeat your anti-socialist/communist lies over and over again. It will not change the fact that capitalism is currently the largest issue in the world and that it somehow had his contribute to two worldwars.
Post number #289311, ID: f246a7
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The generation of our children will probably put an end to capitalism as we know it. It is already 4 generations old and its effects on society are unbearable for a 5th. As of stalinism... With all its faults it won WWII for everyone to enjoy the outcome, didnt it?
Post number #289319, ID: 7ec9b1
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>>289311 The new counter culture will be Juche Communism
Post number #289628, ID: 52f345
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Lol, random boys from other countries where never were communists try to proof me thay communism is good thing. But I live in post-communistic country. Almost all our problems was borned by communism.
Post number #289764, ID: 60bdf4
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>>289311 Well stalinist russia "won" WW 2, but at a high cost and not because stalin was a military or economic genious. It was the russian winter, the red army as trotzkis heritage and industrialization as lenins heritage. Not to forget support by other allied powers. The soviet union was a winner of WW2 despite stalinism, not because of it.
Post number #289870, ID: f246a7
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>>289764 The fact is that it did. As of allied contribution, you only need to see their efficiency in ww2 in Africa, where Desert Fox was kicking their ass outnumbered all the time, until there were no more supplies at all because all was being sent at the eastern front. The world owes a huge one to the CCCP for stopping the germans. A big war comes with big casualties, and heroic deeds in the process. It is was the soviets the ones who had the balls to perform them.
Post number #290241, ID: aa8891
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Okay bitches, if there are so much commies here, just build communism in your own country.
Post number #290245, ID: ff7561
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Only gulag was good
Post number #290958, ID: 876b9a
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>>290245 Well, except for the countless people that just where there because they were suspected for not liking papa stalins moustache. Stalin clearly overdid and in the end ruined it. "His" victory in WW2 is the only thing which remains as a propaganda lie from current nationalists.
Post number #290967, ID: 876b9a
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>>290241 Every honest and reasonable communist should now, that this is exactly what won't work: Socialism in one Nation. As long the majority of nation is capitalist, especially the most technological/economical advanced ones, communism will fail. It's the capitalists job to drive on globalization and get rid of ancient elites and ideologies. Communism is the next stage of development. The only issue is capitalists distraction and divide-and-conquer games to protect their system.
Post number #292274, ID: 647a66
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>>290967 that's very Trotskyist view of communism but I kinda agree.
Post number #292278, ID: 647a66
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btw as I noticed there are many commie g/u/rls in Danger/u/ I wanted to share this Žižek video on 20th century communism and hear your opinions. https://youtu.be/cuwvGT-dbnM
Post number #292296, ID: df6fef
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>>292278 Me often beeing suspected of beeing a commie g/u/rl, can say that I have pretty mixed feelings about post-structuralist philosophy, as I see more relevance in the materialistic aspects of society. I share the goals of most people behind post-structural theories and understand what they are about, but there are some aspects about it I don't like. Their ignorance about materialism somehow remind me of political and esoteric far-right ideologies and religious fundamentalism.
Total number of posts: 51,
last modified on:
Fri Jan 1 00:00:00 1527015396
| I'm no commie or have interest in "Communism as the only viable option" but I still think this is an interesting discussion since this period set the stones for Planned Economy and would become the blueprint for all the commie countries in later years. It also seems very silly to consider this period "colorless" since it seems like there's a plural of many people and conflicts, rather than the direct argument of the pyramid hierarchy of Socialism.