Are people morons?
| >be Brazil
>Rightoid gets into power, destroys the amazon, tries to do a coup, fails, then collides with foreign powers to try to tariff your own country
>be Argentina
>Rightoid gets into power, destroys the economy with narco-corruption
>be USA
>Rightoid gets into power, tries to do a coup and destroys the country with tariffs, deportations and tyranny
>Be France
>Rightoid doesn't get into power, still finds a way to do mass corruption by stealing taxpayer funds
| "You don't get it bro, this new rightoid for sure is gonna fix everything!!!"
Are people stupid? I talked to a guy the other day who admitted to voting for Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, are they just retarded? Is it just a matter that they scream the loudest so all the thoughtless NPCs gravitate around them by default?
So far every modern far-right govt has been an absolute sham of corruption and failure. Are people just gonna keep falling for this shit?
| Yes they are morons and so are the ones voting for left wing governments thinking it will fix everything.
The government isn't our friend, they aren't heroes or anything to be treated as an idol, they are here to keep order and try get away with as much a they can before shit hits the fan.
It's our duty make them follow whats good for us, not the contrary.
| no, it's just left wing is a disappointment and they got no one else to vote
also you're cherrypicking
| and you're obsessed
| >>bc3060
Can we agreed that the people who are voting are still morons?
The absolute state of electoral candidates regardless of political affiliation has been just shit vs scat yet people still vote with full conviction that either one will "fix our country".
| >>1075631
you're a "leftie" and i'm a "rightoid", pretty sure we're both closer minded than we think.
bet the mental image we have of each other is just some sock puppet we got in our head.
and sometimes we almost see through it, and that's the moment we realize we fucking hate politics and everyone who lives by it.
it's just one of those things that's good at sucking morons in and just feeding on their energy and attention.
it's tiresome, it's base, it's immature.
shallow.
| sometimes i retreat within myself and feel like building a life in the woods, alone, building my own hut with money from a quiet part time job at some village store.
voting, posting, judging, acting, being social, career, finances, future, geopolitics, scrolling, porn, stress and worries, fucking hell...
| we can compete in how well we each are at running the comm/u/ne:
my job, builder (anything wood, metal, concrete you got it) farmer (crops only... potato moment) other things maybe idk
| we'll see how the leftie likes their free housing when rightoid builds their comm/u/ne log cabin!
| >>1075634
I'm not OP and I'm definitely not a leftie, not a rightoid either...
I think people are idiots for even considering making affiliations taking sides.
| >>1075638
I'm good at project management, quality assurance and also handling security, I can make sure projects within the communes are actually organized and shared equally.
| >>1075641
just take it the mature route and stop taking it seriously. it's mostly just a meme. instead turn it into fun and ridicule by overusing the terms and employing it ironically. i call myself a rightoid all the time for mild reasons. i'm not really that invested.
>>1075642
i'll build you a log cabin and fuck you in it as a power move
| >france
>rightoids not in power
are *you* a moron?
| Progressivism is actually the true way forward for humanity, it's in the name. Progress.
| >>756a87 OP here, Macron has all sorts of issues but I'd separate him from the modern movement of ultra-rightards who you see in other countries. Of course If I wanted to get into all the bad I think about Macron, that would have to be a whole separate other post.
| I used to believe in the wishy-washy confusionist "the right and the left are both bad!!! it's just the system against the people man!!!", but that stopped being relevant a long time ago. It's fashionable for people who think they're smart to say that right and left are outdated categories, yet no one has ever managed to come up with a categorization that makes more sense. The right-left dychotomy is still more relevant than ever.
| We've seen rightards destroy entire civilization with their corruption and tyranny, we've had two wars with mass murder and genocide started by countries that were vanguards of the global rightoid movement. At the end of the day, fascism is a death cult and we're seeing the consequences now.
| >>1075628 Ok Cite me one successful rightard government of these past 30 years that hasn't been a complete mess of corruption and democratic backsliding. Meanwhile the most successful european government of these past few years is Spain under Pedro Sanchez, who achieved record growth. And that was under a socialist party.
| >>1075625 also,
>Be the UK
>Moronic populists fear-monger about immigration, start a referendum to leave the biggest trading block on the continent and split from your closest economic partners because "muh immigration"
>win the referendum, immediately impose insane austerity that pushes economic decline
>your lower classes are so impoverished as a result that british kids are on average shorter than french kids, due to not getting enough nutrition.
>economy goes to the shitter
| >ten years later the same morons who pushed the Brexit insanity come back to convince people to vote for them cause this time they'll really fix the country
>mfw people actually believe them
| >>1075708
Hey OP not disagreeing that righ wing governments aren't good but like can you cite left wing governments that are good? And I do mean actually good.
Otherwise I think you are just cherry picking and being crazy biased.
| >>1075717 Just cited one, Pedro Sanchez in Spain, Lula in Brazil is amazing, during his earlier terms with his anti-poverty policies lifting millions of brazilians out of the favelas. Rational, facts-based social democracy wins best, compared to irrational rightardation.
| Also even moderate right-wing governments can still be decently successful, but the insane far-right ones ruin their countries without exception.
| >>1075727
Please don't bring Brazil as an example, Lula sucks he has ties to one of the biggest money laundry schemes in the history of the world...
He has been arrest before too, als his anti poverty policies are more about keeping the population poor than actually provide lift to the lower class, his administration also suffer from aggressive taxations that create a further gap between between the rich and the poor and breaks middle class.
| And btw he always excuses that shit as "regulating the market" and protecting the local industry despite his taxes mostly targeting products which Brazil has no local industry.
And well, all that money is never seen by the people, public hospitals lack in staff and resources, public schools don't have proprer infrastructure nor are people paid good enough salaries, crime is rampant in many big cities too.
| Brazil has never been good, nor has ever had governments that actually care for their population, regardless of if the left or the right were in power.
It's outright naive o say Lula was amazing when we see what was goin on among the elites of the country during his time as president, ir was only amazing if you were high midde class or rich.
| >Be Israel, rightoids get in Power and support rightoids in palestine.
>Be Palestine. Don't exist. But in Gaza rightoids get in Power with help from rightoids in israel.
>Be Israel, fight the rest of palestine and occupy their territories. Of course not gaza, because they're their brothers in spirit.
>Be Hamas in Gaza. After murder all centre-left opposition, invade israel and massacre hundreds jews
>Be Israel invade gaza and murder thousands.
=just the usual rightoid policy.
| the usual cherrypicking leftoid, they'll never talk about maduro, mao zedong or stalin, all the while having no idea what "the right" is and just use it as equa to "those i don't like"
| >>1075765 Yeah cause I'm only talking about far-right government in the last 30 years, if you wanna talk about Mao or Stalin then we'd also have to talk about Pinochet and Hitler, but that wasn't the subject lil bro. You're the one moving the goalposts, not me.
You're gonna deny that Milei, Trump, Fidesz etc are part of the same global rightoid movement? They admit it themselves all the time lol
| Also fuck Maduro, the bastard's been denounced by basically every other leftist in south america apart from maybe like Cuba and Nicaragua. But if you think voting for a center-left party in europe or the US is the same thing as wanting Maduro you're a drooling retard.
Rightoids everywhere praise Milei, Trump and Pitler as their examples for society. Only a few extreme tankies ever praise Maduro.
| >>1075766
>You're gonna deny that Milei, Trump, Fidesz etc are part of the same global rightoid movement?
I don't think anyone here denied that...
| >>1075767
>Rightoids everywhere praise Milei, Trump and Pitler as their examples for society
tranny's fictional scenario...
| People like Ciotti in France constantly talk about the "Milei method", so do right-wingers in eastern europe.
Trump has been exporting and trying to influence politics in other countries for a while, most recently in Brazil where he threatened them with tariffs if they didn't let Bolsonaro off the hook.
Meanwhile Pitler has been praised by people like Zemmour and Le Pen, not to mention that he's funding basically every rightoid party.
| i can lump all people i don't like in the same bag too, which is peak NSDAP propaganda techniques.
so you're in league with stalin, mao zedong, all USSR satellite dictator states, the cheka/NKVD killers, 100 million dead by communism, and if you try to wrigge your ass out by using manipulative shit like "uhmm modern era only please!!" i'll bring up xi jinping and the uighur genocide, forced labor camps, execution of dissenters, prisoner organ harvesting, totalitarian state etc.
| and YES, maduro too, faggot, i see your "no true scotsman"
all in all, keep gaslighting, keep praying for that gotcha moment, you're just another baizuo in the end
| "bunch all people who disagree with you in a bag" conspiracy moment, classic
i can't wait for "accuse your enemy of that which you are doing", and "keep repeating a lie and people start to believe it"
| most totalitarianism in modern era was led by a left wing hand.
so keep whining little bro.
| >>1075796
Ayo, here is something people don't talk enough about, people care so much about islamophobia and how the USA and EU are having growing cases of it (even tho they have open borders for receiving Islamic immigrants), but I barely see people talk about what is going on in China, then again, there is a genocide in Gaza, so I guess 2 too much to the internet to care...
| >>1075765
The typical cherrypicking rightoid. They talk always and only about maduro, mao zedong or stalin, all the while having no idea what "the left" is and just use it as equa to "those i don't like".
Honest question: do the boots of your capitalist/fascist leaders taste that good to you?
| >>1075796
yeah, just do us a favour and go to the ukrainian/russian front and enjoy one of the many benefits of capitalism.
Or go to one of those many places on earth, where 1st world capitalism offshored the highly exploitative ugly work to... Have fun in a rare earth mine, a textile or microelectronic sweatshop or harvesting drugs for 1st world people.
If you prefer to stay here, be careful: There may be evil communism in your clothes or electronics.
| >>1075799
>most totalitarianism in modern era was led by a left wing hand
This is correct, but unfortunately for you only by using stalinist methods, where results depend on how you count.
| >>1075819
well the difference is no matter how ugly it gets, capitalism gets shit done...
and i'll take your miniature examples over gulags and torture and 100 million dead by communism, any day.
and clothes and electronics i get aren't distributed by state companies, that's capitalism. you were trying to have your sissy tier gotcha moment but you just showed you don't know what either of these things are.
>>1075818
the typical rightoid is just "talk about commie leaders" lmao
| the real truth which you are too pussy to consider is that left and right is nothing but a masculine/feminine divide... there is almost nothing else involved, maybe a few smoke and mirrors... those terms don't mean anything anymore, because the left kept retreating inwards with their talking points because they don't work (communism, pro-immigration) and the right kept dropping the debate because their ideas continuously became the norm (capitalism, free market etc).
| now, little bro, i know your response won't bring anything of value to this world, just as my replies don't either.
instead i challenge you to this: how about you, as a good little leftie chickenwing, actually fucking bring something of value to this world, which appeals to your political positions? i don't see you campaigning for better healthcare and whatnot. you're just wasting your time and energy getting mad on an anonymous cyborg kissing forum.
| i advise you to turn your "destroy X" into "construct the opposite of X". which values make you spring forward? isolate them, identify them, and just try to bring more of those into the world. you getting baited on a textboard is hardly mature or constructive.
| >>1075796
>Points out that the current wave of rightoid govts are failures
"reee what about Stalin!!!! le 100 gorillion dead Venezuela no iphone!"
I didn't talk about earlier time periods because if you want to get into the 20th century then we'd have to also talk about how a right-winger started the bloodiest war in human history, but I didn't, because it would be stupid to imply that right-wingers today defend Hitler, cause they don't.
| But you drooling morons actually have to bite the bullet lmao
I never posted anything about being against capitalism or being in favor of communism, but immediately you freaked out and went full "ree you're a heckin commie who loves stalin!!!", because you have no arguments to defend the current failure of rightoids so you have to shift the goalposts to evade the question, but I'm not letting your punk ass get off that easy.
| >>1075823
Yeah bro cause the rightard govts are so effective, just don't look to hard at the results in
>Hungary
>Russia
>USA
>Brazil
>Argentina
looks like every anti-immigration govt ends up in mass corruption and tyranny.
Which you can't actually defend cause your only talking point is to shift then goalposts towards 20th century history. (which doesn't end up looking to good for rightards either.)
| New Challenge:
can you guys actually give me an argument for modern rightardation that isn't just a thought-terminating cliche like "muh gommunism"? Cause so far no one has defended Stalin, or Maduro, and your only argument to defend yourselves is to accuse whoever disagrees of being "le heckin commie". What happened to your arguments? Yeah you faggots don't have any, that's what I thought, which is why you have to constantly shift the goalposts.
| "Ree you love stalin and Maduro!!!" No the fuck I don’t. I never said that. This is the classic /pol/tard argument of "everyone who disagrees is a commie". You guys just can’t defend the modern far-right movement because we all know it sucks.
Trump is a failure, Orban is a failure, Milei is a failure, Pitler is a failure, Brexit was a failure, Bolsonaro was a failure, all of them suck and made their countries worse off.
This isn’t 2017 anymore. You will be held accountable.
| >>1075831
The problem is that retards like you are taking people’s healthcare coverage away, like trump did with his bill in the US. The drooling morons you idiots put in power are the reason why our civilization is declining. That’s why they should be held accountable for their failures.
| >>1075823 Yeah bro actually its just about based masculine vs cringe feminine bro so true bro
you need to fuck your own knee, kid
if you seriously think the modern left is in any part communist you got your brain fvked early on and it just shows what echo chambers you frequent
another ameritard who got his brain fried by bipartisan politics RIP
American century of humiliation will continue until morale improves
| Yall fighting like children and we still haven't gotten a comparable list of actually good left win governments...
This left right shit really just deflects from problems.
| >>1075849 wtf even is "left" and "good" in your definition???
I mean does China count? Or Vietnam? Do the Zapatista count?
All of these were pretty good in achieving their goals imo, even when pitted against overwhelming odds.
Are they fully biblically morally "good"?No. But then what government is?
| >>1075850
>But unless we establish arbitrary metrics, turns out no government is good regardless of being left or right wing since no government is perfect and morality can be subjective at times.
You are almost getting there...
| there's no point in debating these histrionic lefties anymore, because they're not trying to understand you. they only want to use you as a prop on their "i'm fighting for the justice of the world!!!" theater play. they feel like they already figured everything out and just want to convince themselves they're heroes, hence "social justice warrior" terms. a waste of time and energy, you're not talking to a person but an ideology. aids tier
| >>1075855
I don't like dehumanizing people or thinking they are incapable of change or reflection, if they feel like they figured everything out, we should just ask questions and see if they truly know everything, thats how you properly dismantle people who treat politics like a cult
They start dismissing, deflecting and making shit up, its just proves that they don't have everything figured out, works on both the left and the right btw, just ask questions, its basically foolproof
| Whether figure that out rethink their biases or start getting angry and throws insults is not my problem anymore.
| >>1075855 Keep dodging lil bro so far we've had zero people actually capable of engaging with what I'm saying.
I called out your retarded accusations of communism so now you have to cope with "you're not trying to understand me!!!"
(cause ranting about muh commies as a goalpost-shift is so much more nuanced).
Modern Rightoids have done insane corruption every time they've gotten into power and they don't want you to question it.
| Their only argument is "everyone who disagrees is muh communist" "You just think you're a good guy!", and all of this is just in response to pointing out that the guys they've been cocksucking these past ten years have turned their respective countries into shitholes. Not a single person was actually able to engage with what I was saying. So yeah, this is very much confirming my preexisting biases.
| >>1075849 I pointed out two examples, and I said that I don't have anything against moderate center-right governments anyways. Once again it's goalpost shifting and distraction, you guys can't handle the fact that I'm calling out the corruption and tyranny of far-right govts so you have to shift the attention to some other shit. But I'm not letting you punk ass bitches get off so easily.
| >>1075863
You pointed out 1 example, Brazil does no count as an example of good left win government, I only cant talk about spain because idk what goes on there and even then, why can't you bring more examples?
The problem isn't far right governments, its bad governments in general, you are polarizing an issue and masking it as only being a right wing problem, your call out is just bullshit to keep people divided and then you complain about deflecting for not fitting narrative
| yap yap yap
| >>1075856
how do you evaluate who knows everything without knowing everything yourself? How you make sure you don't seek for confirmation for your already existing left or right leaning views?
Of course the left istn't always right or morally superior. But what we experience from the right side is far from being moderate. It's amoralic views obscured through tons of cheap but yet effective lies.
| >>1075836
Its the true, true scotsman. They want decide who is a true leftist for them. The most absurd thing I heard this year was german fascist party leader agreeing with elon musk that hitler was a leftist. Rightists propaganda theorists are obsessed with (re-)gaining definition superiority. It works so far for them, but at some point it won't anymore. Their calculation is that once they are in charge they can enforce their fabricated truths anyways. But it won't work.
| >>1075833
>it would be stupid to imply that right-wingers today defend Hitler, cause they don't.
Reality is even more stupid:
Right-wingers today say Hitler was a leftist/socialist.
| Regarding Venezuala:
Chavez was not perfect. But he was popular and under his rule the situation for the very poor people improved. The situation in latin america for governments that claim to be "socialist" and even more contradicting U.S. interests is deadly, even if they're democratically elected. A huge failure of chavism (beside the person cult) was finding alternatives to oil export while not investing in it's maintenance. And Maduro prioritized staying in power.
| We will see, if he is capable or willing to solve those problems, now as he managed to consolidate his power against international pressure, sanctions and democratic standards. I'm afraid he's not. But all of this has few to do with communis, capitalism and the fundamental global conflict between capitalists and proletarians. Maduro is a left-winged nationalist and an opportunist. I don't know if he's a nepotistic drug trading mafia boss, too. Maybe, maybe not.
| What people fail to see, discussing about historical communist regimes, is that they usually emerged in backwarded feudal or even colonialized countries that had to carry a heavy burden from previous regimes. The U.S. and western Europe had the situation of being industrialized earlier, exploiting colonies and partially even got rid of feudal structures. Communism/Socialism was never meant to emerge as nationalistic/anti-colonialist movement out of feudal structures.
| However, even the probably "better" way of modernization (industrialization, republicanisation) in the west still led to horrors such as mass famine, world wide genocidal wars and highly opressive regimes that usually where openly anti-communist/socialist.
| So rightists now blame ANY COMMUNIST (or even just social democrats or liberals) for the horrors of stalinism, maoism, etc. Why they find it unfair if we blame ANY of them (and if its even only moderate conservatives or liberals) for Hitler, Franco, Pinochet, the IS, mass poverty, exploitation and mass famines under explicit non-socialist/communist reign?
| Not to forget the 7 years war (basically the first world war) and WW1 and the countless violent knockdowns and mass murderings against protesting workers, gays, women, slaves and people in colonialized countries...
| >>1075865 I did bring examples, the problem is that it doesn't fit your bullshit "muh both sides" moral relativist narrative.
It's fashionable for pseudo-intellectuals to claim that the left-right dichotomy is nonsense, yet no one so far has come up with anything that can come close to being as relevant and coherent.
"No don't call out the corruption of rightards, that's divisive!" You know what else is divisive? The tyranny and corruption that's being enacted by rightoids.
| Over the last few years we've been constantly chastised for calling out rightoids "you're being divisive! we need more bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle!!!", news flash, that didn't change shit, amidst all the calls for reconciliation, rightoids have only gotten angrier, more divisive, and more dictatorial. Now we have people getting deported form the US for having memes of JD Vance on their phone, why the fuck should we bend the knee?
| We have two massive wars in gaza and ukraine started by rightoid governments, but it's "divisive" to point out that there's a rightoid problem? These are the guys being sold to us as the solution to our problems, yet they're the ones threatening our democracy and civilization.
"You don't like the guys causing genocides and destroying democracy??? ok what's your alternative then genius???" bruh what kind of stupid ass question is that? I'm guessing that's "divisive" too?
| All across the west, the rightoid ideology and govt is the system being sold to us by the elites as the solution, I'm pointing out that it clearly isn't, and you can look at the track record of these govts. It's absurd to say that's "dividing people". Defending democracy from tyranny is not divisive, it's the opposite, what you're proposing is just to ignore the problem by going "it's a problem of all bad govts in general". Everyone notices the pattern.
| based realist vs delusional rightoid
| I see it comming, in decades in the future as the rightoid bullshit propaganda can't conceal the rotten results their bullshit policies anymore, there will be a new rightoid shit wave (I suggest calling them new-true-neo-alt-right v8.8a) declare Trump et al were leftists.
Nixon, Reagan, Bush (x2), Trump: They hold the record of being the most shitty US presidents of all time. Anti-democratic, war criminals and godfathers of terror.
| >>1076020
What backwards logic did do you even use to thinking that I know everything (I don't), the point is about people who think they do, and well, I already explained how we dismantle that.
| >>1076050
You brought up Brazil, which is a shit hole, and spain, which the more I research the more I notice that people are unsatisfied with their government history
How can you even claim they are good examples of left wing government if they have the same problems the right wing ones do?
| Dont even wanna get into you strawman rant about shit nobody said here...
You guys are just acting like the morons you criticize, blindly following a side and ignoring the evils within it while spending energy blaming everyone else.
| at least learn tnr basics of debate and critical thinking before you open your mouth and show everyone what an uneducated person you are
| >>1076091
i do, and you dont. your projections and ad hominem are non-answers. i didnt see you back up anything you said with substance either, and everyone smarter than you can tell. take a debate 101 class ffs because those posts of yours would've gotten you an F in debate and critical thinking
| rightoid simps are uneducated and cant debate
| just continue being histrionic obsessed bitches. people will keep voting people like trump because of your hysterics
| >>1076101
At this point we should just ignore them and let the thread close, they literally just reply here whenever a day o more passes, they are trolling.
| >>7b7d92
if this is true(which it isn't), you're not really painting you rightoids in a good light, are you now. if perceived "hysterics" is all it takes for you to form your opinions, you're agreeing with me that rightoids are uneducated, stupid, vapid and shouldn't be taken seriously.
| >>1076079
>You guys are just acting like the morons you criticize, blindly following a side and ignoring the evils within it while spending energy blaming everyone else.
When did I do that lol, no one here is defending stalin or maduro, yet we're getting hit with the accusation of "blindly following a side" just cause I pointed out that the rightoid insanity that is being sold to us as a solution isn't a solution at all.
| It's just that that other guy had to immediately jump to "if you don't like trump you love stalin!" because these guys know very damn well they can't defend their policies at face value.
| >>1076078 How is that relevant, Lula brought millions of people out of poverty and out of the favelas with his policies, which Bolsonaro never did. Meanwhile Spain has experienced good growth and has a very popular PM. Pedro Sanchez is literally the most popular foreign figure in rightoid-ruled Italy, a country with basically no growth. Of course if you go online as an american, then you're gonna get tons of astroturfed articles about how
"muh too much taxes" and "muh socialism"
| >>1076105 bro so far the only responses I've had to the opening statement is "you're a commie reee" and "actually both sides are le bad, stop pointing out that rightardism doesn't work! it's le heckin divisive!" (even though the media and elites are constantly pushing it) So yeah I'm very much conforted in my initial idea.
| >>1076119
No is defending trumps politics...
>>1076120
These people are STILL poor, crime is still high, he is still raising our taxes more and more, he is still fucking over the middle class and letting the super rich get away, idk how you can call that a good presidency...
| >>1076121
Never said or argued anything remotely similar to that, complete strawman, like, I never even yalked about communism.
| >>1076123 Yeah lula isn't the messiah, you don't turn a third world country into a first world country overnight, he still got millions of people out of the favelas and out of poverty, especially during his earlier terms, obviously he's not perfect, but it's a good example of successfull policy from the left. I don't think the left should promise to fix everything, cause that's moronic. The right promises to "make the country great again" and look where that got them.
| also the guy reeeing aboug muh commies earlier is absolutely a trumptard, that's how they all speak.
And I don't understand this moral relativist "both sides bad" mentality that you can't call out the far-right or else that's biased and bad, today we're getting this bullshit pushed onto us by elites and the media, and i think anything apart from that is preferable. Does that make me a hypocrite? no it doesn't, it's ridiculous to suggest that.
| >>1076126
You also don't turn a 3rd world country into first world by killing the middle class and taxing everyone besides the rich...
| >>1076127
Like I said before:
The problem isn't far right governments, its bad governments in general, you are polarizing an issue and masking it as only being a right wing problem, your call out is just bullshit to keep people divided and then you complain about deflecting for not fitting narrative.
And whenever someone from the right said something I disagree here, I called them out too
| Like, whats the point of calling out specifically one side? Why not just call out whats bad indiscriminately? Its just a self limitation and one I cant understand.
| >>1076131 because the rightoid ideology is the one that's being pushed by elites. Maduro sucks, but no one in the west with actual power is calling for a Chavez-style regime in the west.
"Bad Government" is a vague formula which stops people from identifying to real culprits that are pushing this trite bullshit on us today.
| Because you're, no offense, a feckless centrist, you can't comprehend the concept of a statement that isn't some "both sides bad" without any real analysis behind it.
| Today we have elites pushing stuff like "the Milei method" as the solution to our problems, we have Pitler funding far-right parties all over europe, and we have Israel trying to censor all criticism of it in the west. This is a real a observable issue that is being pushed by a global movement of rightoids who work together. We can either call this shit what it is, or continue to put our heads in the sand and go "nuh-huh, it's not a rightoid problem, it's just bad govt".
| >>4e1954
And before that they were pushing for left leaning shit, they flip flop all the damn time, the elites just push for whatever it is that they wanna make popular, some people will follow it and others will be counter culture, calling out one side just plays into their game.
| Before that they were hard on pushing open borders, lesser military efforts, lower own the severiy of police, now they are pushing for hard militarization, more aggressive police and anti immigrantion policies...
Its clear what kind of game they are playing, the left was being cattered, now the right is being cattered, everyone is pushing for violence, everyone is pretending their side is good, nobody solves anything, rich get richer.
| >>1076137 No they weren't lmao, see this is the sort of confused shit I'm talking about, the bourgeoisie wants to protect its interests and its bottom line. They never wanted wealth redistribution. The problem is that you have a mainstream media definition of "elite" and you don't actually see to whose benefit this whole thing is being done. Why is Trump focused on tax cuts for the 1%? Why is Le Pen being pushed by Bolloré's media? Why are the elites pushing neofascism?
| Maybe you were fooled by pride parades and diversity quotas, but rainbow capitalism was always denounced by the left, because they knew the elites would drop any pretense of social progressivism as soon as it was inconvenient. And lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. The bourgeoisie is only interested in protecting its property, and it has decided that maintaining democracy is no longer in its interests. This is what's happening, not "the elites were left now they're right"
| "Both sides bad" is false consciousness that is stopping people from realizing who the real enemy is.
>the elites just push for whatever it is that they wanna make popular
no, they push for whatever serves their interests and protects their property, they used to push for "progressive" capitalism then, they push for authoritarian reactionary capitalism now. By doing the "muh both sides bad" you're playing into the exact kind of confusion the elites are trying to sow.
| >>1076126
ah yes
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/29/favela-reeling-rio-deadliest-police-raid-brazil
the famous improvement of the brazilian favelas
| >>1076140
You don't get it..
They were hard on pushing open borders, lesser military efforts, lower own the severiy of police.
More immigrants mean more cheap labor, more masses for the decreasing birth rates of the west.
Now they already have their cheap labor and hires, they already inflated the market, now they are gonna push for stabilizing numbers with hard militarization, more aggressive police and anti immigrantion policies.
| You said it yourself, they push for whatever serves their interests and protects their property, and as I said, they will flip flop to whatever they wanna push to make popular, the right is popular now once again after to previous wave of progressivism.
| What they push IS what serves their interests.
>>1076153
This is more complicated than being Lula's fault... Tho I won't say he isn't to blame, its a generational fumble on multiple ends.
| The crimi is Rio started out as small drug schemes but quickly rose into organized cartels
The police neglected their areas due to being i favelas, then their inner gangs started fighting, military police action happened but Lula's gestations had a history of being against BUT Governors of kept flip flopping between left and right gestations with either push for military action or just trying to make peaceful deals.
| Lula is at fault due to sheer negligence, it was always a problem, even before his long period as president in the 2000s, but the police are at fault for having cops who made deal with those gangs.
The local governors of Rio are also at fault for no taking adequate measure and flip flopping over either taking actions or trying peaceful measures, meanwhile comando vermelho kept growing
| Nowadays their violence and influence is so high that they can literally cut down energy from the city, control internet signal, they have access to anti tank rifles and granades, imported from other countries an alo even traded from our own military.
Sheer incompetence let that criminal bubble grow to this point...
| And well, the right kept saying we should just declare them as terrorists and bomb down favelas, while the left kept saying everyone there is just poor marginalized people trying to get by.
Reality is that vast majority are poor people under the rule of local militia with their youth being groomed into more drug dealers and gang members, blurring the line between civilian and gange member, with rich elite criminals basically controlling everything.
| And well, Lula's stance on this current raid...
He still won't provide aid for either either the people or the military police, he denounces the governor of Rio for taking such extreme action and says "the drug traffickers are also a victim of their customers" out of context it sounds terrible...
| But in context of his speech, he means that those traffickers are only in power because of the demand for drugs and that we should take measures against that demand, even tho he doesn't actually have any plans for how to do it...
So its a terrible stance but its still not good, especially since it a problem that dates back to even the highest point of his influence in the country and he just let it fester and never aided the people on the war on drugs in "the peaceful ways".
| So yes, he is still being negligent about it and just pinning all the blame on the current governor of Rio as he has always consistently done.
And now people are polarizing between the right wanting to declare them as terrorists and the left saying we can't do it a the USA might start to bomb favelas...
Its a shit show and no one is working towards a good solution.
| And before someone argues Lula couldn't have dealt with it due to time.
Lula ruled as president from 2003 untill 2011, he finished his manded and didn't try to re run as candidate because of his ties to the Petrolão, a massive money laundry scheme that happened during a grand part of his rule with multiple political parties and companies and even some gangs involved.
| The people still elected people from his party, president, president Dilma, as the first woman president being pushed for her campaign, had an mediocre rule, got reelected but was impeached, as investigations of the Petrolão scheme news came about, creating massive hatred towards her an Lula's party.
Vice pres. Temmer did the bare minimum, then right wing Bolsonaro took power for one mandate, did bare minimum while inciting a coup when lula started to campaign himself again
| Brazil history before, suffered from economic crisis, military dictatorship and disputes between democracy and feudalism in the1800s.
Lula got the better end of being eleced in a post economy crisis time, he kept the machine running while his party made money laundry, when it leaked, he hopped off, got arrested, didn't get guilty verdict, still involved tho, meanwhile his successor and her vice tried to solve his shit and now he is back trailing of right wing hate from Bolsonaro
| Tldr: Elites benefit from both left and right policies, they deliberately push whatever benefits them at the moment.
Lula isnt directly guilty for the raids in Rio, just negligent enough of letting it happen despite having almost a whole decade of total time as president and kept pinning the blame on the governors of Rio while crime kept increasing.
Brazil is a shit hole county that has always been fucked over by both the left and right and never had leaders that truly cared.
| >>1076157 This is the classic rightoid "muh immigration" line that has been pushed for years by the same elite-controlled media, so far it's never stopped being stupid. The bourgeoisie will always push for capitalism because that's the system that backs its interests.
| The anti-immigration push nowadays is convenient to scapegoat, but they still want access to cheap labor, which is why they pushed back hard against unions. No matter what happens they still want their cheap labor, making it a both sides thing doesn't make sense.
| Saying Lula didn't do anything for the middle class is absurd, he arguably created the modern brazilian middle class by lifting millions out of poverty, mainly with stuff like bolsa familia. he didn't fully address the problem of the underlying conditions of the favelas, but it was still a net gain. Did Bolsonaro do anything similar? no he didn't, yet the elites still want to keep us subservient by calling it a "both sides" problem. Just another tool of the elites.
| This "both sides bad" slop is the same slop we've been served for the past decade, and so far where has this gotten us? more corruption, more tyranny, two bloody wars started by neofascist regimes and no improvement to show for it. Meanwhile where are all the good action from the "both sides" people? Biden and the dems refused to prosecute trump for Jan 6 because "muh both sides, we have to forgive him, the problem is bad govt". All of this only empowered him.
| What has the camp of "both sides" achieved so far? What do they have to show for it? Absolutely nothing, that's what, the media and elites have repeated "both sides" for decades and this is the bullshit they put us in.
I used to be naive like you, I used to think "the problem isn't the right, it's merely bad govts of all sides!" But over the years I stopped believing in it anymore, because I grew the fuck up. You should do the same.
| >>1076158 Because I don't consider limp-dicked rainbow capitalism to be real leftism, yet it's being sold to us by elites as if it were real leftism. actual leftists have always been against it cause they saw it for what it was, I established this.
| Story time: Lőrinc Mészáros used to be a small-time gas station owner in rural Hungary. His company was on the brink of bankruptcy, but ten years later, he became the richest man in Hungary. How did he do it? It's simple: one of Lörinc's high school friends, a certain "Viktor Orban" ended up becoming prime minister and de-facto dictator of Hungary. Orban immediately rescinded a law banning people in debt from running for public office.
| Lörinc ran for mayor of the town of Felcsút, under the umbrella of the "Fidesz" party, Viktor Orban's party. For some weird reason, Lörinc Mészáros started to get a whole bunch of government contracts for really juicy construction deals. Renovating museums, buildings bridges, roads, etc. Contracts worth billions of hungarian taxpayer money, and EU funds. Lörinc invested that money by buying up hungarian businesses, real estate, and more importantly, media outlets.
| Now, Orban officiated the creation of a certain social class of people: the Oligarch class. These Oligarchs, just like in Russia, back his regime with their wealth and influence. Now I know what your reaction is gonna be "You can't just call out the rightoid corruption!!! You have to look the other way in the name of both sidesism!" But look at what's happening today: The Oligarch class exists all over the west, and they always seem to be backing the same program.
| Trump has his Oligarchs, Pitler has his Oligarchs, Le Pen has her Oligarchs, Bolsonaro has his Oligarchs, Milei has his Oligarchs, etc. And for what it's worth, Maduro certainly has his Oligarchs as well.
But the fact remains: There is no "both sides" here. There is a social class of parasites that got rich from our money through corruption, and they want to keep perpetuating this system. You can be naive and choose to ignore it, or you can face the facts. Your choice.
| >>1076210 Another funny thing is to look at the contracts in question: He got contracted to build a train station and a Stadium in Orban's home village. The village in question is home to a whooping 1000 people. The train station had previously been closed down in the 70's for being unprofitable. All of this had been funded by EU grants.
Keep this in mind next time Fidesz complains about "muh EU diktat"
| We have a coherent, globally active, constantly funded, and cooperating movement of rightoid leaders who all back each other up. Who in the left has that? Where are the "elites" backing the left? And if by left you mean "mild liberals who want gay rights" then you've been fooled.
| >>1076166 The raid killed like 100 people and they seized 100 or so guns and arrested about as many people, that's as many people killed as they have arrested. That's a pretty fucking botched raid lmao.
Also I'm pretty sure people in Milei's govt got caught for having ties with the narcos.
| >>1076201
Then you LITERALLY agreed with what I proposed but for some reason you head thinks this is exposing some hidden logic that debunks what I said...
| >>1076203
He didn't, the economic boom of the early 2000s was not Lula's doing, it was something started due to "Plano Real" by president Franco in 1994, which changed the national coin from the "Cruzeiro" to the "Real" which at the time had similar value to the Dollar, all Lula did was then follow that wave and not screw over that...
Even then, consider the massive money laundry scheme and his mandate ended with the our coin being devalued to 5x less than the dollar.
| It wasn't as net positive, he literally let the economy bleed, while championing himself as the president of the people, and also "bolsa família" doesn't lift people out of poverty, most of the people need it, don't have it because they are working on poor paying jobs so the government sees that they are working and doesn't provide aid...
Its a poorly made system that doesn't allow one to have a crutch to transition to middle class, they provide less than the minimum.
| >>1076204
Repeating both "sides slop" is not gonna make it more real...
And what? Biden admins didn't prosecuted trump because either they couldn't find shit (incompetence) or they were afraid of trump and his admins leaking stuff about them and reached an impasse (fear), this has nothing to do with "both sides", its the sheer spinelessness of the democrats.
You literally made up that somehow a third party of "both sides" somehow impeded it...
| >>1076207
So the reason no one of the elites is considered a leftist is because you just pushed the line further away from yourself...
You are just a far leftist pushing away everything you don't like as alt right, even regulated capitalism is seen as just a far right facade...
You are the mirrored image of the fascists that push everything they don't like as communism and woke to rally people.
| >>1076216
If someone was saying the shit you were here but blaming everything on the left, it would be considered somw crazy communistphobia conspiracy theory...
At that point you might as well be fighting the same enemy as those far right idiots, you just can't agree on what to call them.
| >>1076217
No, they didn't commit many arrested, the raid was basically meant to go after and kill gang members, people have been fed up with him, cuz recently they made schemes to cut down energy of the city, infiltrated and assasinated people within the military police and sent videos of beheaded people that didn't cohoborate with them...
| As of now, none of the victims of the raid were known to be innocent people, they all had camouflaged clothes, bullet proof vests and weapons, there are vidos online of people claiming to be family members of those killed, saying they were innocent but of those identified members who were killed all had criminal records and even photos of them with illegal guns and gang affiliation signs...
| Again, this is just as of now (the raid was done over the weekend) I'm not gonna just up and say that no victims were innocent, I don't know everyone there plus at any point more evidence can come out and more raids can happen.
Its all a consequence of negligence letting crime bubble up in vulnerable communities and now having to take extreme actions at point where the problem grew beyond reason, it just sucks and there are no heroes.
| Tldr: you are just a far leftist who did the mental gymnastics of pushing putting yourself in the middle of the political spectrum and everything to the right of you is considered right wing even if the position is moderate, just like the crazy rightoids who think everything to the left of them is "woke dei communist slop".
You praise Brazil as a good leftist government example because you don't know much about their history and deliberately ignores a massive money laundry scheme.
| >>1076229
my man. you're acting the role of sock puppet in his little crusader spectacle. he doesn't care at all about your opinion, he just needs to hold a red herring in front of his nose to feel validated. he's a troll in the closet, desperate for your attention. you won't get much in this conversation. he's already convinced. this is not even a person speaking but an ideology. i urge you to reconsider wasting your time and energy on him, although i can appreciate the effort.
| >>1076231
I'm discussing because it helps me understand different kinds of opinions and mentalities, I don't engage with people who responded with "lol" and "you get an F in argumentative skill" but I do engage with people who can actually answer something, its good to test my knowledge, their knowledge and to see the world from another perspective, even if I don't fully understand it, it's an internet debate, nothing worth a fuzz.
| >>b4a571
lol none of your arguments are posted in good faith. all you do is project, shit things up and lie. everyone smarter than you can see this.
| prove us wrong by engaging in an honest, respectful debate in good faith where every time you get called out for using a logical fallacy you respectfully listen and re-arrange your argument without any trace of logical fallacies.
spoiler alert!!!: you can't. because rightoids can't debate without logical fallacies.
if you're confident in your stance you should be able to argue it without logical fallacies. period.
leftists can do this. rightoids cant.
| >>1076249 I have not seen a single left argument that didnt hinge on them pretending to know nothing, right sit there and state their thoughts beliefs and opinions and often show studies with their arguments. Left goes, "whuh? What do you mean? I do not understand what you are trying to say."
| >>1076254
uh, i feel like most of their "persuasion" hinges on banning you from forums for wrongthink.
| remember that time you desperatly fished for validation and no one gave it to you? but instead called you out for it?
yeah, samefagging for validation is just... pathetic. that's it. there's no better word to describe what you're doing, anon. you're a pathetic rightoid simp who's living inside your own head. no one is ever gonna validate your lies here. ever. obviously.
| everyone knows you're the one "validating" your own post and this is the most cringe and pathetic thing that's ever graced this niche anime board.
| >>eb5f38
I don't know what your arguments are in actual response to mine , but if thats all you have say then, I think you should look at your own reply...
| >>1076281
>everyone knows
ofc you believe to know what people know or not...
>this is the most cringe and pathetic thing graced
ofc you love superlatives. Makes sense.
>this niche anime board
You're that lost, you don't even know where you are... this board ain't 4chan.
| He is a schizoid*
Haha he made a typo argument invalid :(
| >>1076291
lol this is the most desperate sub-90-IQ "debunking" I've ever witnessed LMAO you can't make this desperate shit up
| >>b4a571
>we're both retarded
This is all your sub 90 IQ ass can come up with?? THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE TO GETTING CALLED OUT FOR PROJECTING??? lmao, you know you're inferior. you know it. you know your ideology would kill you when you're no longer useful so that's why you simp. ᴸᵒˢᵉʳ
| This is sad for both of you Jesus christ. One side is a fucking troop off their schizoid meds and thinks this board is just 3 people and the other is a dude who thinks typing "lol dumb dumb epically owned" makes him sound smart
| >implying samefags don't exist on political anime boards
you're so cute you gullible little goose
| so the leftie argument is just samefag samefag samefag? that's all? it's just fucking pathetic, even moreso when we're at least 2 people who don't like your ass here and you keep hallucinating shit. and then you say "projecting" like my nigger in christ as if >>1076280 >>1076281 wasn't one huge self-projection on your part. you essentially described everything you're on about. you're instable, histrionic, hallucinating shit as it best fits you and probably just trolling...
| Imagine acting this defensively over being called a samefag.
| >>1076402 I mean imagine belittling people based on their views (granted that dude is doing just that and trust me its cringe too)
| >>1076416
While probably not very wisely and socially questionable, it's logically/intelectually/morally not wrong. It may be more purposeful talking to stupid people with dumb views like they're little children, but it's also very exhausting.
Belittling people based on their ethnicity, sexuality, nationality is fundamentally wrong, especially against traditionally stigmatized groups (Privileged ones can laugh about it more easily).
| >>1076229
>You praise Brazil as a good leftist government example because you don't know much about their history and deliberately ignores a massive money laundry scheme.
There is some truth to this. Brazil is a huge country with a very large and diverse population, a very complex history and very special international relations. So yes, Brazil is currently not an exemplary "good leftist government". But it is a thousand times better than all "alternatives" offered by rightoids.
| >>1076481 only marginalized group now are natives of first world nations, and the sword of "privilege" are the ones who cannot be criticized. When you get jail time for saying you dont like migrants coming into your country and committing crime, the police will show up to your door.
>>1076482 the "alternative" in question is accountability for ones actions. Commit crimes get punished, is it any wonder why these degenerates want anarchy
| >>1076482
Can it, you have no idea whats like to live there, the economy is variable, the minimum wage is five times less than enough to sustain a single family, work hours are normalized to be 6 times a week, public schools are horrible, private ones are expensive and risk having religious doctrine, public healthcare is inefficient, politicians will rob rob public funds, agree raise their own salaries and vote for more taxes...
| The only redeemable things are the food, generally good tropical weather with basically zero natural disasters that aren't self inflicted by terrible urban design and negligence, and maybe the people if you like how open and social they usually are.
Its not a good country to live in unless you are some high middle class or outright rich person, because then you can actually afford living there despite all the problem that may arrive.
Refresh
| >Be Hungary
>Rightoid gets into power, turns a promising country into a den of corruption and tyranny by stealing EU funds for his own cronies
>be Russia
>Rightoid gets into power, destroys his country by starting a meaningless war and sending an entire generation to die in Ukraine, rants about "gender-neutral bathrooms" while millions of his countrymen still lack indoor plumbing