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Transgender in Anime
| I just watched episode 8 of Zombieland Saga and found out Lily actually has a penis. There have been arguments as to whether Lily is a trap or trans. Trans-side argues that since Lily threw away her masculine name and began adopting feminine pronouns, she is officially transgender. Trap-side says that despite that, her junk is intact and there is no hormone therapy yet.
~sowed niobe tate
| At which point does someone cross the threshold from crossdressing to transgenderism? Obviously in real life the difference would be if someone has gender dysphoria or is just doing this for fun. But some fail to understand the nuances that come with the quirks of their characters when writing them.
~tinny pleat haze
| There was this thing I remember where people lambasted the writer of fate for calling Astolfo a male, as they believe him to be trans. Many weebs reacted strongly, saying a writer can hae their character be whatever they want them to be, and that gender politics should stay away from the entertainment industry.
~loren terms ate
| Nevertheless, I understand why some felt unhappy with Astolfo's creator. It can be seen as the creator making light of the issue, as such trap characters very much exist for the sole purpose of shock value. In a country as conservative as Japan, we may even stretch this by saying the creator was forced to say his character was so in order to save face.
~iron sleds feats
| But then what of reverse traps? All those tomboys and lesbians who look like guys aren't transgender? How do we draw the line? Although I say real life has differences, there are some who harass and push their ideals to people who already know where they stand. As such, how do characters sufficiently express who they are to not cause misunderstandings?
~retch mucus erse
| By the way, I'm not a fan of labeling Lily as either. Children should be left to explore their sexuality or gender on their own terms without intervention from others, instead of being quick to label them and make a big show out of it, whether it be negative or positive attention.
~cadre bayer simon
| Go away fucking tranny
| >>565323 *Still, it's a highly controversial topic which I still cannot completely understand, and hope to explore through the medium that is anime.
And something I forgot to mention is that despite Japan being the conservative place that it is, it's surprisingly progressive to have Lily go through that ordeal. But otakus as a whole has always been a different breed I suppose.
>>565332 Ebic.
~rube cunts bowl
| Trans as a topic is so controversial amongst anime watchers that im just heavily inclined to not discuss it, but hey its /u/ so idm doing so here
I think the recent boost in trans recognition is a step forward in the right direction, afterall, pro choice just sounds best to me, but theres a bunch of controversies, one of which quite hilarious (lily and terfs). I mainly dont know why but its always the more traditionalist types of liberals and conservs that love to stir shit up too
| please stop, this is disgusting.
| I really hated how they did all that in steins;gate. hououin was such a dick to rukako(?). I could barely watch that episode. rukako was just poorly written in general as well.
| >>565373 Not necessarily traditionalist, just people who refuse to consider other opinions. And what other controversies are there that I haven't heard of?
>>565376 Why? Do trannies disgust you that much?
>>565473 I haven't watched Steins;Gate yet, but I'm going to drop Uma Musume to free up time. But for now, can you describe the behaviour of Hououin that you find to be distasteful?
~brain law julia
| >>565500
1. They think the things they like and the way they behave dictate their gender
2. Thanks to 1 they normalize sexist behavior because they reaffirm gender stereotypes
3. All that creepy shit of wanting to inject hormones on kids to turn them into trans(you don't even know if they're really "trans" and the damage is irreversible in case they're not)
4. They flood every forum or videogame with annoying "trans rights" shit, let me enjoy my stuff in peace
(1/?)
| 5. Even if it's not their intention all their trans acceptance campaigns give the impression that they want to be the rule, not the exception they are(shit, in my work we had a talk to "identify when you noticed you're actually cis")
6. The "I want to use the bathroom for the gender I identify as" it is just disgusting
(2/?)
| 7. This one is not trans specific actually it is true for most minorities, demanding representation on media, I get you want to be represented but creative works belong to the authors and you should respect their decisions
8. You people act like caricatures
9. Wanting to expose kids to sexual content(I know it's not something every tranny does, but it's at the very least a vocal minority of you people)
That's all I can think of right now, but maybe there's more
(3/3)
| >>565326 I find it funny how everytime there's discussion about trans/trap (in a serious manner), people almost always bring up astolfo.
Motherfurraker, the fate franchise is a clusterfuck in terms of writing.
Yes, they can justify fate/stay night's saber is a genderbent version of the actual hero, but when you dip your toes into the off-spring like fate/apo, the writer is just obviously playing with gender for the money and popularity.
| Fem characters just make more money in the general otaku community. Just import the .png version of that character to Fate/GO and they can make a lot of money because people will roll for them. That is why astolfo looks like that, that is why jack is loli girl, and frankenstein + nero + mordred is somehow a girl.
And for anyone to demand the writer to treat the character properly, that is just asking too much.
| They just simply don't care. Fate is a cashcow franchise, and what they need to think is just how to keep making content related to it as long as possible.
| > gender politics should stay away from the entertainment industry
This
| >>565500 The way he introduces rukako is basically him saying 'he looks like a girl and wants to be a girl. but he's a boy!' later, rukako uses time travel to become a girl (through some real bullshit) and hououin is just like 'no' and then gropes her to check. even if rukako wasn't trans it would still be uncomfortable to watch, but combined with the general misunderstanding with which she's written it's really a turn off.
| >>565596
This
Why do people care so much if x character is trans, trap, male, female or whatever they are making up right now? It just shows some people don't have much interest if it doesn't deal with their stupid problems
Also, if they want to be represented, why don't they create an original work instead of crying to successful artists to include them?
| >>fe9744
1. Certain behaviours conform to certain gender stereotypes, but should nevertheless dictate their biological sex. I agree.
2. Ditto. Another reason I despise the term 'trans'.
3. Agreed again. Children are not playthings.
4. A vocal minority, but I understand why that'd affect you.
5. As above. There will come a time when PC culture will come to bite the ass of companies.
~reads skims kook
| 6. Eh, I don't care. If you're worried about perverts claiming they're trans, they'll exist no matter what anyways.
7. Vocal minority.
8. That's whatbeing stereotypical mean.
9. That's another discussion entirely, of which I have a lot of opinions regarding which wil be highly controversial. But I will say here that I draw the line on letting children participate in sexual activity.
~jamie yap skunk
| >>554b59 There are MANY more trap characters: Hideyoshi from Baka to Test, Hideri from Blend-S, Felix from Re:Zero; and while they each received backlash, none were so severe to the point they received a reply from the writer, hence why I broght him up.
~horse novae pious
| 'For the sake of profit' is not an excuse for negligent writing imo. Matters of mental conditions are topics to handle with care. But as are gloomy characters not necessarily making light of depression, I understand neither are feminine male characters trivializing gender dysphoria.
| >>565662 Again, speaking as someone who hasn't consumed Steins;Gate. Prejudicial characters existing do not diminish the issue at hand, nor does it ruin the story in any way. MCs can have flaws that do not relate to the story in order to give them personality, Chekov's gun aside. Do other characters behave in the same way as Hououin does, or do they accept Rukako? I don't believe this an agenda of the writers if they included her.
~brain benny jocks
| >>565664 If the character is written in a way that seems to bring harm to people purportedly represented by them, it WILL receive retaliation from said people. If those people people were to write their own original series as you, you know damn well they'll include how they're oppressed by cis men, and you know double damn well you'd be pissed off because you know not all men are like that because you yourself are male and is not like that.
~fools tills vent
| >>565823 >you'd be pissed off
I wouldn't watch it, because it doesn't appeal to me. The only thing I'd get out of it would be a laugh and a few shitposts, and it would flop horribly anyway.
| >>565814
>negligent writing
What part of "fate writing is clusterfuck" do you not understand?
I already pointed out how fate franchise is not knows for it's top tier writing. Afterall, it is based on visual novel, it has "transfering magic power via sex" logic in the original visual novel. It has a spear that guaranteed to pierce hearts, but in the 2nd episode it already failed doing its job.
| Get it? The writer is already infamous for not caring about details of the main story. So for anyone to jump up and down, asking them to actually give thought on theif treatment towards side characters is just too much.
>>565814
>for the sake of profit is not an excuse
Well, anime is an industry/business. It is almost always profit first. And tying that in to fate franchise, go look up "carnival fantasy".
| >>565814
*carnival phantasm
It is just a bunch of short story, about fate characters doing stupid stuff, mostly unrelated to the story.
There are no reason to make it other than the main series popular abd it prints money. Fate is already known to pump some random content just so that their fans keep buying their shit.
| Lily is a girl, haters end your lives.
| >>d35f27 I understand the fate franchise is highly retarded, but my point was that your notion of giving a 'moron pass' doesn't sit well with me. They can butcher whatever the hell they want, but when they belittle actual issues people have, that's where the line must be drawn. I restate, I don't think the situation with Astolfo is anything worth getting worked up for, but just because fate is known for butchering historical figures doesn't mean everything should go under the radar
| >>566334 it's more of "knowing what to expect" more than "idiot pass"
Let's say mc donald serves steak and then you go there because you are a steak connoisseur. You expect them to get it right, but they mess it up; it is greasy or taste like rubber. IMO if you post in your social media about how shitty mc donald's steak is, then you deserve to get laughed at. The chain is already known for greasy and shitty fast food, expecting a decent steak is an uninformed/ignorant decision.
| >>566334
If anything, then they should get the historical figure, magic system, and death game mechanic right first before being concerned about how to treat a trans character.
Try ask around some anime fans about fate franchise. They'll tell you that fate is about waifu/husbando, death game that involves heroes, and cool fights.
Almost no one will say that it is an anime about trans or gender complication.
| It baffles me how people would want to have a minor part of the anime get fixed while ignoring/ letting the very thing that defines the anime butchered.
| >>565596
>>565664
These
>>565823
You can't honestly believe this. How out of it must you be to not realize that 90% of the people in the entertainment industry today only follow trends and money cows? Ex. Hollywood's golden age, for the most part, thrived on contributions by immigrants (Italians, Jews, Irish, Greeks etc.) and yet their majority didn't use their entertainment skills to degrade and undermine every American just because a few of the latter actually hated them.
| Overrepresentation of already tiny demographics will likely alienate the main target audience. Not worth noting in the long run. Goid for some sgirt term clicks. Basically a fad.
| The only major relevant representation of "transgender" in anime is the okama in One Piece
And honestly that's already too much for a group so small
| Exactly.
| FYI the new switch version of Stein's gate is animated. It's better than the show imo
| Would not want to watch it
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| Discuss.
Before getting into this, I just want to say that I hate the word trans, because it seems to serve more to further divide people than be used as a characteristic adjective. Still, it's a highly controversial topic which to this day I still cannot understand completely understand, and to explore through the medium that is anime.
~times owner rte