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SAO & why it's bad
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3MmI_oD-Vg&list=PLw6UBKuaMyFANdpg4H8DRLdOHSTIaZTys&index=3
Just watch the first minute of that vid, it already points out how the whole "there are more than 1 death gun plot twist" and how it is stupid.
I linked the whole playlist just in case you want more flaws.
| >You just don't see the circle cause it ain't displayed.
Well, they are crosshair instead of a circle for a reason. The circle is so big that, the bullet has so many places it could land. to the point that it is not reliable for a decently consistent head shots even if your aim is perfect.
It's hard to explain, but seriously, just try playing Valkyria Chronicles, you'll see how annoying the RNG is and how different it is from normal competitive FPS game.
| >Halo games
I've never played Halo, but are you sure that you are not mixing it up with aim assistance?
| >>408738
I don't have it mixed up.
There are actually two things in halo that make up aim assist.
-Reticle magnetism, which is how your camera corrects itself to align with the opponent under your crosshair, by 3 degrees or something. It's used to avoid having to deal with imprecise micro movement on a controller. It feels like your crosshair adheres to your opponent.
Projectile magnetism: enemies close to your crosshair are the favored direction of your bullets.
| >>408734 That's just dev lazyness. In most of today's competitive fps games the bullets have hundreds of variables tied to them. I've never played Valkyria but looking at it on Youtube I feel like it probably uses less than 20. GGO I guess uses a streamlined & pathetic rendition of weapons physics because the book is meant to appeal to a demographic closer to Valkyria than CoD.
>>408771
Why I don't play Halo.
| >>408738
This applies to controllers only, and peeps who've played the PC version only experience the spread of bullet being preferential to the general direction of enemies under your crosshair. They don't hit all the time. At all.
I was talking more about how even if the game doesn't show you, your accuracy is actually never perfect. Meaning you always have a margin of error.
Let me elaborate more on the accuracy randomness...
| >>408656 well, like I said, I have never played halo, but are the circle can go so big that it covers half of the screen? I mean in GGO we got a scene in which almost point black shots misses because it got so big.
| I take offense to valkyria being compared to sao
| You fire at something, your reticle is over the target. Dead center.
You are not guaranteed to hit dead center. Not in CS, not in Halo. Some games have perfect accuracy. These two don't.
For those that don't, the hit will likely be around dead center... But you could be shit out if luck and be the most precise human on Earth, your acc is not perfect, and you could still miss.
| >>408786
This is because the game takes into account your heartrate... That punishes players who don't keep their cool and panick.
| >>408674
Yep, I know, hero is just so OP... But there's probably more OP than him. Unique abilities are the most balance-breaking mind-tilting thing in the system. It gives people special attributes that other people can't have.
But for the love of Shiba Jesus Tatsuya... The system running SAO was created by a literal MAD SCIENTIST!
Why do you expect it to be balanced?
This is not a plot flow. The story is actually coherent with the setup on this one.
| >You're telling me there was never anybody in Alfheim who thought "Hm, I wonder how high we can fly if we piggyback off each other?"
Yeaaaa, I don't have anything to say on this one ^^"
| On this note, let's buy Valkiria...
| >>408791
In games beyond CS & Halo it's not a simple function of how accurate the weapon is, you actually have simulated gravity & windfall added to the mix. GGO obviously lacks these as well, despite the game (distinctly from the novel) seeming to be geared in other ways toward players of military shooters. You could always say that it's just that the devs did a poor job of it, but Kirito seems to think they did a good job.
| >>408824
Hum, the bullets in GGO don't drop?
Maybe I was mistaken then.
Well then, accuracy mechanics are not actually bad in GGO, but if there's no gravity affecting bullets in GGO, that's a major flaw in physics models.
| >>408816
The thing is that flight & the freedom it allows for are meant to be central attractions of the game, so suggesting that nobody's ever played around with it to that extent of wondering about how high or far they could actuall go before is like believing that nobody in CoD would experiment with trick shots. Especially seeing as it'd be a terrific way to cheese, raining magic down on something or someone from an altitude they can't reach to retaliate.
| >>408825 I don't recall that they do, I might be mistaken. I do recall noting that the lines never flex in the breeze.
| >>408828
Yea, wind would be hard to deal with for casuals...
By the way, which Valkyria do I get myself first to experience the RNG you were talking about?
| >>408832
I'd like to know as well, but >>d0d132 is the guy to ask.
Just did a bit of searching through the text of GGO Alternative. Supposedly the game accounts for everything from gravity to coriolis force(!) but the circle accounts for all that anyway & the aim assist is so incredibly hard that your hands can be trembling & not interfere with sniping, so long as your heart rate & breathing are under control.
| Though I won't pretend to understand how the game is meant to know where you're even meaning to aim at that point.
| >>408851
Circle only shows where the bullet will impact. You move so that it matches your target. Sniper Elite-assist-like.
There's no reason the game would actively compensate for trembling, though...
| >>408855
Right? It runs completely contrary to the whole 'keep calm' mechanic. The translation isn't perfect but what I get from it is that the same mechanic applies as compensating for recoil on a lmg, so you can mostly spray & prey without concerning yourself with stability. Why is there even a strength stat in this game? At one point the character talking about this even says that everything just comes down to speed.
| I am this gurl, >>d0d132 my ip changes overnight (or just randomly).
I am not an avid FPS player, so I don't think I qualify anymore to comment, since the discussion seems to be very technical after my last post. But I can speak about valkyria because I played 3 of those games.
>>408832 >>408850
I'll have to recommend VC I, because VC II has terrible story and characters, while VC III is japanese only (there's fan translated one if for some reason you insist on that one)
| Also VC I is just simply available on steam, usually it goes as low as 3$ (iirc) if on sale. So if you just want to see the circle mechanics, you refund it before 2 hours.
The thing is, the most effective and preferable to kill your enemy is to sneak up behind them, get in as close as possible (probably 3-5 feet from them) and shoot them at their nape. The game sometimes feel like more a stealth game more than a shooter one.
| You can play it as normal cover shooter, but it might take several turns before you clear the enemies.
You can try save and reloading before you shoot on VC I and the result will he different. The same goes to VC II and III since I tested it using PSP emulator.
The most noticable RNG dependant shots are from lance (pretty much a rocket launcher), the circle is very big (just like in GGO) and it went all over the place if you reload your save.
| >>409047
Interesting, I'll give it a go.
Sorry to have discouraged people from joining with all the technical talk, it's just that shooters are my scene. Didn't mean to make this thread just about the finer points of GGO, any commentary is welcome.
| >>409048 nah, it's fine, this is what I expected when I opened the can of worms. On the contrary, I'm glad there're people that are more knowledgeable about this specific topic and explain it. It's nice to see the explanations for and against the mechanics, taken from other games perspective; even if I only understand parts of those explanations lol
| >>408806 well, enjoy. The same channel also has a long video about the first season of SAO, it is just not edited.
| >>408872
I mean yea, but it only "shows" you.
If you don't have enough STR, you won't be able to keep the gun physically stable and your circle will not necessarily become larger, but it'll definitely move all over the place, reflecting actual barrel movement.
Iirc, AGI gives you a circle that reaches default size in a shorter time, DEX gives you a smaller circle right before your next heartbeat.
| >>408872
It's actually true about "everything comes down to speed", but only if you're maxing out on speed. It makes you individually stronger, I can't deny...
| I don't think the mechanics of the shooter are bad, and I think the RPG aspects were, even if unintentionally badly designed by the author, actually reflecting the serious madness of Kayaba/Heathcliff...
| >>409100 uh... please don't play the 2nd one for the sake of your sanity....
Not only that it inherits almost all flaws from the first game, it also adds RNG as a factor in upgrading your units, whichbus frustating.
Oh yeah, plus it removes the ability to save mid battle. So if the RNG screws you, you just have to roll with the punches. Admittedly if you play it on emulator, you won't have that problem.
| gtg work, back in like 4 to 6 hours idk... haven't watched the vids yesterday, so I'm probably gonna do this tonight... Feek free to post about more flaws (ik this anime is flawed afk hehe).
| kirito being mc was the source of many of its problems. he gets whatever the fuck he wants: rare drop on floor one he uses for the rest of the game, wicked reflexes, hot wife, the whole shebang. but he's still a dick the whole time! also, no matter what he does, he's always the most powerful character throughout the entire game. his single saving grace is that he's not the stereotypical pussy ass harem anime mc, he actually goes after the girls he wants.
| SAO Abridged > SAO
I am right?
| Do at least give the author credit for picking a girl and not fucking around about it for a thousand years
| >>409388
Yea he ain't the best written char in anime history.
He's a kid, depicted as childlike, so of course he's gonna be boring. Typical shounen or not?
He has room to improve. He makes stupid mistakes.
| >>409396 he does have room to improve
And then he doesn't
>>409392
There was supposed to be an "I" at the beginning of that
| >>409398
In what ways does he stay bad please, I'm having a really hard time thinking how he does not improve :/
| >>409124
How do you mean RNG in upgrading your units, I'm imagining something like FE & I'm sure that's incorrect.
>>409217
>implying he couldn't be an interesting character without absolutely peerless skills, unique drops, or always achieving what he sets out to after a single failure.
| >>409595 I've only played less than 2 hours of Fire Emblem, I can't say about the upgrading system.
But in VC II, you can upgrade the class of your units. For Example: Scout > Vet Scout > Elite Scout. Each rank up allows them to get better or additional weapons.
Badges are given to each units at the end of the mission, it is not transferable so you need to use the unit that you want to upgrade at a mission and hope that after clearing a stage they'll get the badges.
| The annoying part is that a stage can take somewhere between 2-15 minutes to clear. And the catch is that specific type of mission gives specific type of badges.
So you can't really just grind the one that take 2 mins to clear because they won't drop the badges that you need.
Still, if you persistant, you can get it, right? At worst it will only take you 15 mins.
>No, the badge drop is not guaranteed and it is random.
So have fun clearing a mission over and over again.
| I've tested this on emulator. I let the unit that I want to upgrade took down a lot of enemies and created a save state before I finish the mission (and getting the badges)
I could change the type and amount of badges that the unit get by loading the save state and walking more/killing extra enemy/skip a turn just before finishing the mission.
Now imagine if you play this in the actual PSP, yeah... there's no save state on PSP and there's no saving mid battle.
| I see, that really is a shitty system. Contrarily though, you can exploit the fuck out of it on an emulator, can you not?
| >>409636 oh yeah, of course. Remember the rocket launcher that I said has the biggest circle? You can turn it into sniper and snipe people/tanks from afar if you use save state and have a lot of patience.
But still for the badges, it still took a decent amount of reloading before you get it, because high tier badges have a low drop rate.
| >>409595
Yes, he could be interesting in a lot of other ways. I see him more as a really lucky dick. I really don't see why being a dick makes makes a bad MC :/
And there were claims he is the most powerful, but if that was the case, he wouldn't be afraid of Laughin Coffin at all. Which he most definitely is.
Of course, we get ridiculous plot points and inconsistencies. I can't say anything to that.
It was written this way. That's a choice. I can't blame the choice of someone else.
| Still haven't played VC T.T, been sleeping tight...
| "Two year's worth of semen made a glopping noise as it flowed endlessly into Asuna."
^this is why.
| Actually... What if Kirito was a secondary character?
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| To keep this discussion from occupying the current Underrated thread. See there for background.
The biggest thing that bothers me frankly isn't even how defective & unbalanced the mechanics of the games are, it's that for some unfathomable reason Kirito is the first person to ever use some of them. You're telling me there was never anybody in Alfheim who thought "Hm, I wonder how high we can fly if we piggyback off each other?"
"Gee, that'd give us quite an altitude advantage."