KDE Plasma 6.8 last version with X11
| don't care, wayland's good.
| Complaining about wayland is basically the linux equivalent of "the west has fallen".
| KDE HAS fallen, billions must fork
| looks to me that xlibre is a good choice so far. i hope they don't do systemd nonsence like xorg
| >>1098412
x11 does not depend on systemd.
also using xlibre doesn not change the fact that there won't be support for any kind of x11 implementation on plasma.
| >>1098414
>x11 does not depend on systemd
that is correct the x11 PROTOCOL does not depend on anything of the sort
HOWEVER XORG does optionally use systemd‑logind and does so by DEFAULT.
> no x11 on plasma
sucks for plasma users i guess
| Everyday we stray further from POSIX
| >>1098423
i'm pretending to be a smart ass. and playing into the politicising of the issue.
i actually have no idea what xlibre stance is on systemd. but i do know xorg can use systemd i just have no clue how or for how long it's been a thing
| >>1098423
optionally uses by default does not mean it's a dependency. the main point of contention with xorg was the fact that it's getting more and more neglected by everyone in favor of wayland, that's the main reason why xlibre exists (along with the xlibre maintainer's terry davis ass rant about redhat dei driving the descision to axe xorg because he's autistic like that).
also who cares? the last time i used x11 was on a system with an amd caicos gpu from 2011
| >>1098431
as said above the stance is fueled by the "SYSTEMD IS THE ANTICHRIST I HATE THE ANTICHRIST REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" autism so it's probably a gentoo type stance, works with systemd but they probably intend for you to be using it without it.
| Systemd timers are pretty cool, I like that they log things into system journal
| >>1098433
I care that x11 remains popular as i've given up on wayland. (after a decade)
(also doubt you used it in 2011 as it was unusable)
>>1098437
I understand the extreme hostililty. when the standard that makes linux perfect, get's widely discarded.
It's reasonable even. the unix philosophy is the only acceptable approach for something so universal
| >>1098464
used it recently, i only brought it up because that's the only system with graphics capabilities so ass i didn't even bother with trying wayland (although it would've probably worked tbh). the last place where i was absolutely forced to use x11 due to hardware limitations was a snapdragon 425 soc.
been using wayland for over 5 years at this point and the biggest issue i've ever faced with it on plasma is that it occasionally spawns windows on the wrong screen.
| also, while systemd has it's flaws (especially regarding the cumbersome codebase and the system's monolithic nature), most people agree that a better practical solution of equal universalitu is yet to materialize. it's not really a debate of which way is "objectively better" but more so an endless excercise in philosophising over what an init system should or shouldn't be.
| >>237ada
right, i misread your post (read that you used wayland since 2011), makes more sense now.
| as someone who only started using linux in september 2025 bcs of Ldows ending support, i will never get why people hate wayland and systemd. hyprland even.
| >>1098885
basically comes down to a lot of UNIX philosophical crap and the hypothetical stance that systemd's feature-creep prone nature (i.e. systemd provides an init system, a bootloader and also a login manager instead of those being independent components) could result in more bugs and increase the attack surface far more than necessary.
they essentially propose that it would be more beneficial to just have a bunch of smaller, independent and interoperable projects instead.
| that said however, most people (maintainers and users alike) are rather comfortable with the systemd-centric nature of linux and don't really care.
in my opinion, if even valve was okay with a an arch-based, systemd-dependent, plasma-wayland distro being used on a product that costs actual money and was received with almost universal praise.
why even care unless you dailydrive a system with a 20 year old gpu or something?
| >>1098885 to understand that you need to know history and understand the concept of rape.
Wayland was created by Red Hat, one of three corporations at the time that had serious pull in linux space. The way they did it is that it is not compatible with x11, breaks everything and it is basically now the new standard. Their common retort to that was "we will fix it" and "deal with it".
| Entrenched linux users are used to maxim "you do not break userspace" and those who witnessed that told Red Hat to fuck themselves.
Red Hat and other corpos continued to work on it though (they like it when a project has corporate accountability, which xorg as a community project had none) and Wayland indeed had a use case - it had better codebase and architecture compared to X11 - easier to work with for developers.
| Eventually compatibility via xwayland was addressed too. Then Wayland was adopted by big distros and by corporate linux users too.
| Basically it comes down to this: imagine you are a woman and you coworker tried to rape you at some point in the past. A new girl comes to work, has positive interaction with the guy and when you warn her she tells you "Nah, he is good". No matter the nuance of the situation - the fact will always be the context of your interaction with him. Thats why wayland is hated so much.
| >>1098893
> valve was okay with a an arch-based, systemd-dependent
HOLY SHIT, valve are fucking bloat lords nowdays. taking them as anykindof authority is mental.
Half the devs i speak to shit talk about their chromium integration in steam and cs2. and how bad their dep handilng is for user facing programs.
| >>1098885
you are the thing i fear most.
A linux userbase that wont give a fuck about quality or principles.
Sure plenty of things are debatable like bloat and what's actually important but.
This should essentially never be broken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
| Also as a wayland user for 10 years.
X11 is a standard. I think it's better.
It has like 2 or 3 real issues.
Wayland has been a wild ride of improvments and regressions that i'm done dealing with.
It's still lacking feature parity in multi pointer, multi seat, and it will never have feature parity with forwarding, because it's not designed as a server which somehow wayland touts as a "feature".
| And yes i absolutely belive that better software comes from gatekeeping soy developers LIKE MYSELF. i don't adhere to these principles in 80% of my project. i don't belong as a contributor to X, or any C based widely used project made by read Chad devs.
| >>da1015
>oh no this software that works and is usable was not designed in line with the teachings of gigachad developers from the 90s and doesn't have the 3 obscure features exactly 5 living people care about so therefore i will now concede that linux has fallen
software-cuck
| >>1098950
i literally use multiseat rn so i can shitpost on the internet while my gf plays forza
what the fuck are you on about
| >>1098954
>me and my 3 weed smoking girlfriends multiseat all the time
you post on /tech/, there is no girlfriend
| https://github.com/willybarret/multiseat-rs
also wayland supports multiseat
and you can use waypipe for an x11 forwarding equivalent for native wayland software while xwayland will handle regular x11 forwarding
also first time in my life i've heard of multi-pointer
| >>1098974
lol links "solution"
"solution" dev: we suck dick and drink Tereré while thinking about how to suck
Meanwhile they figured it out 40 year ago.
Ye you really got me lol.
also Gigachat 80s developers.
| >>1098981
What a way to prove my point. link me a non functional soy rust project, by a Tereré drinker
| k
| Plan9 had superiour architecture ahead of it's time ages ago and it didn'r get adopted because: Our hardware is still single host piece of junk. Wayland addresses the issues of direct gpu communication which x11 neglects for inter-host protocol. This is just like vulkan addresses the translation overhead of opengl. The real problem is that we focus on single host perf and neglect the inter-host capabilities of building truely modulat systems. I had 16 host desk year 2007 with x11.
| >>1099153 skulltrail was 18 years ago, old man. There will be no need for multicpu desktop forever.
| if anyone actually gave a damn about what you're talking about. ther'd already be x11 a impl ommiting the sockets and auth.
Trading in something functional for a turd with a fresh paint job.
I just hope when i'm an old fuck, i have enough brain cells left to avoid your approach.
| contrarian software-cuck is contrarian
| i know i am scary
| no ur a cuck
| vulkan anyone?
| >>1099502
it's time to grow up and become an adult worthy of at least some respect in life. or maybe you like being looked down upon like some insecure chud?
| >>da1015
real distributed software has never been tried
*looks at the fucking data centers popping up like mushrooms after a storm*
| >>1099519
project more
>>1099520
you remind me of this fella that wold constantly talk to himself when with others and alone.
Sometimes he'd think he was participating in a conversation just because he was tangantially related to what others ware talking about
| >>1099541
ye there was no hope ofgetting him anywhere close to reality. just like you fantasising 24/7
| Why is every thread about x11 on here so braindead, devs don't owe you work, if they don't want to maintain something just use the stable version before they drop x11 this is a non issue
| >>1099770
true. i use a fork and i like it. I can still shit talk the devs for abondoning it.
Xorg have effectivly have stopped updating for years. It's not great but not really a big deal.
The biggest annoyance may come if application devs choose to not support x11.
We may run into a future where people have to port new programs to x11. or got forbid, retard devs that drop existing x11.
| >>1099798
ye i'm not worried about x11 going away. i'm worried about aspie devs that will specificly remove it as a political position
| If X11 goes away.
It would be because something better came along. (not wayland lol)
you know not all developer space has neurodivergent people in it. ik easily forgotten, since their so aposematic (although you know. 45% bla bla, python)
| also software cuck continues to try to defend archaic architecture because
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE SOMETHING BETTER NOOOO THEY DID IT BETTER THAN YOU BACK IN THE 80S, YOU'RE JUST TOO SOY TO SEE IT NOOO YOU GOTTA TAKE THE X11 BBC LIKE ME NOOOOOOOO
| >the x11 bbc
why is every wayland proponent an obsessed chud
This thread is closed.
| I think it is time to #RapeWayland